Road Zoo

Hey true weirdos, we owe you a big thanks because of you We won two w3 awards for best history podcast and best host for the episode Koki and lucky and we've won three signal awards and I'm really excited about these for the episode doomsday clock We won silver for best history episode We won silver for best craft editing and production and max also won a listeners choice signal award for his outstanding work On doomsday clock his outstanding work on every episode, but that one was recognized. None of this will be happening without you We are so grateful for our community of listeners who come to this podcast every single week to hear these stories We make it for you. We couldn't do it without you We hope you'll stick around after the episode because there's more to the story bonus content and conversation You It wasn't the oldest zoo in the world the ancient Egyptians have dibs on them because of course they do It wasn't even the oldest zoo in Europe the Tiergarten Schonbrunn in Vienna has those bragging rights but when it opened in 1836 the Bristol Zoo Gardens in Great Britain was a It is impossible to contemplate the triumph of art industry and public spirit exhibited in the wondrous Transformation of a rude field into a beautiful garden over the years the Bristol Zoo though small by modern standards racked up both visitors and victories in animal conservation including Britain's first birth in captivity of the black rhinoceros Although many of its charming Victorian buildings were never quite right for the animals They housed it took nearly two centuries for the Bristol Zoo to finally close its gates forever It was September 2022 just two years after the global kovat pandemic caused the number of visitors to the zoo To plunge to the point it became impossible to remain in business which meant moving more than 25,000 animals with the new Bristol Zoo focusing on conservation many species were Permanently relocated like penguins and meerkats who found new homes in Spain in the United States but there was one group one species that was Incredibly difficult to move the eight Western lowland gorillas who called the Bristol Zoo Gardens home Sensitive intelligent and social these animals couldn't simply be hustled into a padded van like they did with the flamingos or Tucked into custom wooden crates like the Aldabra giant tortoises Moving the gorillas was much more complicated So much so that a decision was made Would it not be better to build their new habitat first and then relocate them?

And so those eight gorillas stayed behind Where they remain today three years later in a closed otherwise empty zoo a Gorillas living in their habitat in an empty zoo for years It was something the public wasn't even aware of until an urban explorer. That's what we call people who wander Abandoned buildings and places broke into the shuttered Bristol Zoo and stumbled across them a Video made its way to the internet showing one of the gorillas tapping on the glass window of its enclosure Looking the Explorer said Desperately sad the British press leapt on the story calling the Bristol eight the world's loneliest gorillas Lots of folks jumped to the conclusion that the great apes have been abandoned and forgotten No, no, not the case at all Said the zoo's director Sarah Gedman First of all, the gorillas are as cared for in their old habitat as they will be in their new one Which will be four times larger She said also gorillas are not like people a gorilla smile is a show of aggression Okay, and that's not even getting into how gorillas don't express their feelings through facial expressions anyway gorillas use body language and posture and action to convey what they're feeling and also They are perfectly happy to not be observed by crowds of people because they're gorillas not stand-up comedians They don't need an audience. They're fine. And please please stop breaking into the property because you're just scaring them Now we have to lock them up at night for their own safety You don't think of a zoo just Closing if anything seems kind of permanent. It's a zoo You can't just shut it down and start rehoming the lions and tigers and bears. Oh my You But zoos do close and so do other places that house Earth's wild things places that go by other names like marine parks game farms and Sanctuaries with more than 10,000 zoos worldwide housing millions of wild animals It just stands to reason that some will shut down When you do hear of a zoo closing though, it's often a small roadside sort of facility remember Joe exotic Lay down Tell them that the tiger Let him run the job Let him Then stand back and marvel What a beautiful Cuz I saw tiger now I saw That's Joe exotic himself singing I saw tiger, of course It's been a minute since Joe laid eyes on a tiger what with that 21-year prison sentence

He's serving for a murder-for-hire plot against his big cat rival and sworn enemy Carol Baskin Seven months after Joe checked into a cell in federal prison the US Department of Agriculture Suspended the license of the zoo where Joe had kept and mistreated hundreds of tigers and other animals for more than 20 years We're talking Emaciated animals big cats that had simply gone missing with no record of how or where The menu was spoiled meat during one USDA inspection a lion cub was found in such critical condition That inspectors stopped immediately to get the cub into veterinary care Roadside zoos can be the worst news for the animals in captivity and not much better news for the public There was at least one incident at Joe exotics place where a young lion escaped in full view of an audience oops To be fair though animals bust out of roadside zoos and commercial zoos Far more often than anyone would be cool with an escaped monkey is on the loose north of Charlotte in North Carolina Well capuchin monkey here climbing on the telephone lines Apparently escaped from a local zoo yesterday the zoo is now working with local animal services to try to Because get him and bring him out of the zoo spent the past two days conducting a thorough investigation into how the Jaguar Escaped and how to prevent this sort of thing from happening again and zoo officials now admit had staff members not acted as Quickly as they did the Jaguar could have breached a perimeter fence here at the zoo and gotten loose Set free in an Ohio neighborhood and tonight. They are not all rounded up good evening I'm Wendy Bell tonight Mike Clark Channel 4 Action News reporter Shannon prime live tonight where one monkey is still out there Shannon You're running around with a dangerous virus That's right Mike the rain is really coming down right now But authorities here in Dainesville, Ohio really want to find that monkey because he carries a virus that can be very dangerous to a human Being if he comes in contact with a human being we want to tell you that just up the road here Just through these woods where the animals were all roaming last night 48 of them have already been buried on the Thompson property. Think about it 300 pound grizzly bears running through these neighborhoods one was when a large cat We understand was hit by a car in traffic. They were all let loose by their owner just before he killed himself That was a shocking tragic story out of Ohio in 2011 another Buckeye State Zoo escape in 2024 was a whole lot more tame Cedar Point Amusement Park in Ohio Became the scene of another great escape over the weekend when a large herd of goats broke free from their pen at the petting zoo and you may remember this was the same park where a couple of camels were Spotted taking a stroll last week and there's a pattern here this time park officials say the goats Jumped over the barriers of the enclosure and started roaming free The goats started following folks around and seemed a little confused about where to go the human visitors Well, they seem to take it all in stride. No one butted heads the whole experience Turned out not to be too bad after all 800 pounds and on the run This is the big talk of the day an animal gets loose at Roger Williams Park Zoo and bruises workers on his way out tonight It's back in his cage But ran free for almost an hour NBC 10's Michelle San Miguel was at the zoo and found out how it escaped Well Patrice and Dan that animal that escaped is called a talking it's a mix between a goat and an antelope as you can see It has some pretty impressive horns Well, this talking injured two workers before charging out of it to begin with the Fox News alert a story We are following all morning Panic breaking out at a zoo after two lions escaped this all unfolding in Germany two male lions Somehow slipped out of their cages overnight and are somewhere on the zoo grounds They say an emergency plan is now in place

The zoo will be closed to the public until the one on camera Chimpanzee escaping from a zoo in Japan and trying to avoid capture as authorities scramble to get him back safely at one point He's even swinging from utility lines as the drama went on for two hours We get the tale of the tape from NBC's Miguel Almaguer The high wire drama was carried live on Japanese TV The escaped chimpanzee named cha-cha fled a zoo in northern Japan showed no interest in going back The 24 year old male perched above and swinging across electrical lines Reporters calling the play-by-play live for nearly two hours He just got hit one yell An enclosure at the Cleveland Metro Park Zoo The female Mexican gray wolf scaled the containment wall and created a gap in the top of the enclosure The Cleveland Metro Park Zoo is working on modifications to prevent a breach in the future We could go on and that's the uneasy truth The prosperity of post-world War two America, we're all still a little drunk on that nostalgia Or maybe hungover from it is more accurate We're all walking around bleary-eyed and queasy Pissed off that the party feels like it's over before we even had a chance to have a good time But those post-war Americans your grandparents or maybe great-grandparents They were just in time for automobile culture to explode for the dawn of the white picket fence Suburban dream This was a newly mobile society and just about everything changed to fit it From the songs being played on the radio to the boom and roadside motels and roadside attractions The automobile radically changed the way American families lived and worked and played now families had the means and the opportunity to hit the road and Roadside zoos began springing up all over the country Though a few were already in place like the legendary bear den on us-27 in Harrison, Michigan Its proprietor a gentleman named John spike horn Meyer opened up for business in the 1930s Spike horn was a vision in buckskin and his property was as rustic as you could get He had a log cabin a few sheds and a handful of pens Bears were spike horns thing black bears that he raised from cubs. There were no cages at the bear den Visitors wandered freely among the bears feeding them popcorn and orange soda and glass bottles There was a huge sign at the entrance to the park that read Only bear den in the world where visitors are allowed to shake hands with a bear and it was true Spike horn had taught his bears to offer their paw for a shake. It mostly went well there were the occasional bear bites and bear scratches and Even a little girl who got dragged through a fence by an over enthusiastic bear, but people took that in stride They seemed to understand that the risk of being mauled was all part of the authentic bear den experience In 1953 the Michigan Federation of Humane Societies Took a swing at outlaw and roadside zoos like the bear den a swing and a miss it took until 2012 for a law regulating the possession an Exhibition of wild and exotic animals to be enacted in the state and all through those many decades Roadside zoos in Michigan kept on keeping on Sometimes Roadside zoos were an attraction all in themselves But it was common to find a free zoo attached to a service station even as early as

1951 plenty of these zoos were more than a little bit tragic The money went into the signs designed to lure drivers off the highway Pull off the road expecting an exotic wild kingdom only to park in front of a dusty eyesore With maybe a sickly monkey or two the draggled coyote and depending on where in the country you found yourself Possibly a listless and scabby looking alligator These were usually small mom-and-pop Establishments and it's almost comically unhinged how casually these zoos were run Like this one in Fargo, North Dakota Mrs. Margaret rock collects bears like people collect stray cats and dogs She also can't resist taking in monkeys crows Coyotes and other assorted animals. She has six bears and cooks them a pan of cornmeal mush every morning The rest of the day she feeds them root beer. Then there was Bob layman's outfit in Kennedy, Texas Lehman owned a business right on Highway 80 called the Chicago service station Lehman was an animal lover. So opening a free zoo to draw drivers to his pumps like a no-brainer. It was 1950 and the future was as bright as the steel bars on layman's spotless cages For variety and quantity Lehman's got them all beat his attractions include four lions three of which are full-grown females averaging 375 pounds in weight The fourth lion almost crowds out his elders in the race for popularity however Because he is only three weeks old and shares his quarters in the service station show window with Sir Sidney a one-year-old chimpanzee Lehman zoo also had raccoons and possums Bobcats and black squirrels a chatty raven named Pablo and a laid-back baboon named March Lehman cared for the animals himself with the exception of the lion cub who was apparently mostly looked after by Sir Sidney the chimp Sometimes when we tell a story like this one, it seems like we're talking about not just another time another planet Who buys a baby lion from a traveling circus?

Bottle feeds it and then gives it over to a chimpanzee nanny Bob Lehman, that's who he had zero training and zero experience running a zoo But he was a quick learner until the lion cub Freddy the lionesses Tommy Cleo and Peggy all lived in the Lehman family home Pablo the Raven had a habit of stealing pencils. So when the Lions went to live at the gas station, he joined them Leaving the cub and Sir Sidney to share the house with Bob his wife their two-year-old son and their baby daughter Susan Marie Lehman told the El Paso Times that everyone got along beautifully Except when the baby tried to run Sir Sidney over with a toy car Lehman said the chimp would lecture the child in monkey language Then retreat to the couch to keep a benevolent eye on her many roadside zoos charge admission prices, but not Lehman He has a box mounted in an inconspicuous place where visitors can deposit coins to help take care of the feed bill Which was no small thing the three adult Lions ate 25 pounds of horse meat every other day and a gallon of raw milk with a bowl full of raw eggs once a week The other animals ate piles of bread carrots apples bananas lettuce and any other fruits and vegetables Lehman could lay his hands on It sounds like a disaster waiting to happen But Lehman's menagerie never had a single instance of sickness These animals were well cared for and while Lehman acknowledged that they attracted a whole lot of vehicles to his service station He was so attached to them that he'd keep them even if they didn't but people like Lehman and roadside zoos like his Weren't exactly the norm and not every operator had a motive as innocent selling gasoline and souvenirs In Florida the State Game and Freshwater Fish Commission had its hands full busting roadside zoos that were operating as fronts for illegal gambling in 1950 Cecil Webb the State Game Commissioner announced that all roadside zoos in the Sunshine State would be required to have Permits for the display of wild animals Failure to do so meant fines closures and even prison time Webb wasn't playing he announced his intention to personally go anywhere in the state of Florida where animals were being used to lure tourists into what he called a vicious racket fleecing visitors of Thousands of dollars during the season the typical roadside zoo has a wild animal exhibit out front and a gambling room in the rear Usually containing either dice roulette wheels shell games or a Combination in some cases visitors have reported losses as high as a thousand dollars Florida wasn't unique when it came to roadside zoos operating as illegal gambling establishments Idaho, Washington, Montana, Georgia, Illinois, the Carolinas, Texas, Arizona, California Basically any state attracted the tourists had the same problem Even Ultra-virtuous, Utah had busted a couple of zoo operators for preying on visitors with a weakness for cards and dice Some of you might be wondering if illegal gambling was in fact the biggest hazard these zoos posed What about the animals not just their well-being but the risk of escape?

Surely someone somewhere stopped to consider what might happen if a lion or a tiger or a root beer crazed bear Slipped the bars to wander free or just decided one fine afternoon That they'd had enough of being held captive Shine your flashlights here the boys shouted through the almost pitch blackness police obliged It's the thing someone exclaimed then with a terrified chattering a furry anima darted onto the pavement Only to be enfolded in a skillfully cast blanket. It wasn't the thing It was an escaped kinkajou from Texas Jim Mitchell's reptile farm Texas Jim had failed to mention that he was missing an animal. I mean why borrow trouble?

Why pay a fine for a little fruit eating honey bear that wouldn't hurt a person? I mean, you know, probably not heck a full-grown kinkajou tops out at maybe seven pounds. So what's all the fuss? Fuss was stories like this a caged bear at the roadside zoo in Manistique, Michigan Chewed up an attendant from head to foot Richard McBurney 62 was bitten on the head chest shoulder abdomen arms and legs His condition was described today as fair McBurney a part-time employee of the zoo was attacked when he opened the cage to give the animal water McBurney survived only because the owner of a nearby tavern heard the commotion and rushed to help Battering the bear with a shovel until it backed away from McBurney Then you had guys like Richard Cummings of Marysville, Washington he had a little zoo operation, but apparently very little self-control or sense a Roadside zoo operator was arrested Wednesday night by two state patrolmen who said he chased them with a six-foot rattlesnake Cummings was also drunk surprise and Resisted arrest the whole rattler showdown only ended when Cummings to wind it by the chase Stopped and dropped the snake back into its pit Even Las Vegas that glittering desert Mecca of debauchery a place You wouldn't think would need to do much of anything beyond just existing to lure a tourist Even Vegas couldn't resist an animal attraction Then Nevada passed a state law designed to wipe out the dusty desert Bunko games that relied on rattlesnakes and raccoons as bait for hopeful gamblers Only to run straight into battle with the owner of the multi-million dollar Sparks Nugget Casino The owner John Esquaga was offended that anyone would call his business a roadside zoo Little Bertha the nugget elephant is responsible. She is used for commercial purposes She is an exotic animal ergo. She is illegal There are not many people locally who keep an elephant around the house Therefore Bertha is exotic She also dances a particularly wicked little dance and is a female under a different definition of the term This too makes her exotic Hardy horror a little Vegas stripper humor for you there And the thing is no one not even fishing game seemed to have much appetite for banishing Bertha They actually pushed for a bill that would carve out an exemption for animals like Bertha It is not every community which has a pachyderm Available at a moment's notice and it would be a shame to spoil the whole show on a technicality one more thing Elephant haters are thinks In 1958 a Florida congressman named Syd Herlong took a look at the state's motley collection of roadside animal Attractions and then introduced legislation to at least ban the import of the venomous cobra snake and its eggs The congressman pointed out that roadside zoos and snake houses that have uncoiled along major roads and vacation areas are Making hooded cobras their main attraction a cobra just kills for the hell of it said her long Not even Congress can pass a law that will keep snakes from breeding once they escape to the woods When skeptics questioned her long as to the odds of a cobra escaping he pointed out that a Rhinoceros had recently escaped a roadside zoo in his district if a rhino could do it Surely a cobra could it just seemed like common sense to her long He was later proven right by another invasive species of snake Starting in the 1990s the Burmese python was spotted for the first time in the Florida Everglades By the year 2000 they were declared a reproducing species in

2012 the US Department of the Interior banned the importing of Burmese pythons said her long died in 1995 living just long enough to say Just a few years after congressman her long came for the Cobra 22 foot long python came for its keeper at a roadside zoo in Gibsonton, Florida Alfred Henley 59 was found unconscious on the ground near the pythons cage The 210 pound snake was found later in a tree Okay 210 pounds Nate yikes Henley died in route to a hospital in nearby Tampa Sheriff's deputy Norman Beddingfield said an autopsy would be held but added We're going on the theory that the snake crusty That's what all these circus people believe and we have no reason to doubt them Then the dead man's widow capped off this wannabe Coen brothers movie by announcing that it surely was a puzzle Since the snake had never killed anyone before First time for everything as they say and the last time for anything for mr. Alfred Henley The public was pretty chill about owners of roadside zoos being slapped strangled bitten kicks scratched and bruised But when those things happen to guests especially children in The bear attempted to pull the girl under the bars and into his cage outside a restaurant on highway 301 Three school teachers and a volunteer firefighter eating at the restaurant punched the bear with iron fence posts for several minutes The cage wasn't closed by a four-foot-high fence But David Horton the zoo's owner had left the gate open while he went to get more food for the bear Who was in the middle of a feeding The zoo was open for business and there were no signs indicating that visitors couldn't enter that enclosure The child and her uncle approached the cage Stopping to purchase some food from a coin-operated machine The bear managed to reach out a paw Snag the child's foot the bear dragged the girl into the cage up to her waist tearing her pants off in the process It was her screaming that brought those four good Samaritans running from the restaurant toward the bear's cage Herlock the firefighter later said I lost all sense of fear He reached into the cage grabbed the bear by the ears trying to lift his head off of the girl But the more they pulled the harder the bear tugged They finally succeeded in beating the bear back and it's kind of miraculous That child had only bruises and a few puncture wounds on her legs or Maybe not so miraculous Is that bear like many of its kind at those janky little zoos had had all of his teeth removed?

except for the molars a five year old girl was bitten by a wolf at a roadside zoo in Fulton County, Illinois a Pair of full-grown male lions escaped their roadside captivity at house kitchen in Augusta, Georgia No children harmed, but some nearby sheep and dogs were attacked and killed in Michigan a Hippopotamus wandered away from its roadside enclosure wandered straight into traffic where it gave the handful of Michigan drivers who hit it the shock and scare of a lifetime and Even the granddad of Florida man showed up with a roadside zoo adventure of his very own Dave County deputy Neil let arrived to find raccoons pigs monkeys ducks geese and baboons rushing about Let said Joseph Tessier 25 was smashing cages telling him I'm saving us from the animals Tessier was arrested and charged with malicious destruction of private property as for the zoo's owner Tommy Dale He took it in stride. That's show business. He said that's, Florida This was right around the time the public opinion regarding the conditions at roadside zoos began to shift Where it had once been a novelty to pull the family station wagon off the highway For the thrill of seeing a tiger or a chimpanzee Now the shabbiness was on display The cages many of them pitifully small or shockingly inadequate in terms of security Where it was once exciting to just lay eyes on a lion or a coyote Now people couldn't help but see just how mangy Depleted and sorrowful many of the animals looked Patchy fur eyes crusted and leaking Elephants chained in stalls not much bigger than they were big cats restlessly pacing pacing pacing marking off their choke territory the primates so intelligent so social listlessly plucking at their own flesh in 1969 Only 15 states had laws on their books that even attempted to regulate the roadside zoo industry Unfortunately, the care of these animals is as a rule Deplorable cages are sometimes too small for the animals to stand or the bottom of the cages are made of wire which cuts their feet Often the cages need cleaning and sometimes the animals have fouled themselves because of the cramped space The owners busy with dispensing gas or food or selling souvenirs Sometimes forget to water the animals or leave them to suffer in the hot Sun now people were comparing the roadside zoos with the big regulated zoos and Discovering that the differences were far greater than merely the size of the space or the variety of the animals housed there It was increasingly clear that animals and regulated zoos enjoyed sanitary humane conditions Not to mention at least a semblance of their natural environment It was a stark contrast to the roadside zoos which were primitive at best animals in cages Beasts languishing in the dark corners of pits chained to trees and laughed at They lie in fear in corners of ill-conceived pens Trembling and alone in a world. They will never understand often missed and mistreated a Silent suffering only they will ever know One man in North Georgia was keeping a bobcat in a little cage for tourists and was feeding it. Nothing but raccoons It was in bad shape Another Georgia man in DeKalb County had five baboons in a cage in his backyard Then he left his wife and left the baboons

Who remained outdoors all that winter? They nearly starved and most lost nearly all their fingers to frostbite Secretary of the Interior Stuart Udall stepped in Drafting a model law to improve the treatment of animals that were held in roadside zoos I am deeply disturbed by this situation in this great country where we have always Demonstrated concern for the welfare of wild animals such treatment must not be tolerated The feds could only do so much though since the state's had primary responsibility All you doll could do was encourage states to adopt uniform statutes regulating the care of wild animals in captivity many citizens and Organizations have expressed outrage about conditions at many commercial roadside zoos Menageries and snake pits Complaints also concern the condition of wild animal exhibits at many filling stations souvenir shops Refreshment stands and other businesses catering to tourists the most frequent complaints cruelty cramped quarters Shocking sanitary conditions at some exhibits where the filth was not only repugnant to the viewer but a public health hazard as well Larger animals are sometimes chained and even tormented to make them appear ferocious The model law drafted by the Department of the Interior included recommended minimal standards for wildlife exhibitors feeding schedules cage sizes and other specifications But as the outdoor editor for the Atlanta Journal Priya Veselin pointed out laws can't touch the soul of a man They can't draw out a man's compassion that has to come from within People hate the government so they want the government to do something about an issue that matters to them and the conundrum of the roadside zoo is About as good an example of that as any The federal government did pass something called the Animal Welfare Act way back in 1965 On paper it looked good. The AWA established standards of care for animal housing sanitation nutrition water even veterinary care under the AWA exhibitors were mandated to provide their animals protection from extreme weather and extreme temperatures a model law as such things are called a model for states to follow Or not because this is the US of A and we don't like being told what to do by nobody know how So the AWA was just one part of the reality for operators of roadside zoos State and local law added layers and layers of their own regulation licensing and even zoning so many laws so many ordinances so many rules and As is the case sometimes when stuff gets left up to the states to decide things can get chaotic Faced with a bewildering tangle of red tape some roadside zoo keepers just said screw it We'll just be unlawful or whatever and take a gamble on not getting caught Animal welfare activists were disgusted by what they considered lax and barely enforced federal regulations They howled and fought and protested for decades with the general public mostly blissfully indifferent or let's be charitable and say unaware That all changed on March 20th 2020 with the debut of the Netflix documentary series Tiger King within 10 days of the release more than 34 million people were suddenly very interested in how a roadside zoo was run and

How those animals were being treated, you know, I've never seen the show okay, so I just have to go by what people have told me and and Some of the comments that I get on social media and that is I have never in my life even now been accused or Charged of animal cruelty or animal abuse by any law enforcement agency other than PETA Okay, I'm not in here for animal abuse I'm in here for taking five five in danger species without a permit They claimed I should have had a permit to euthanize my five sick tigers. That's the man himself Joseph Maldonado aka Joe exotic speaking from jail When asked he said that the first thing he planned to do upon being released was head to the nearest 7-eleven for a pack of Marlboro lights then irony of ironies He intended to speak on the cruelty and injustice of the confined as in himself Mostly my long-term goal is is to testify in front of Congress About prison and justice reform. We don't need to retell the story of Joe exotic But Honestly, we probably have him or at least that Netflix documentary to thank for a dramatic increase in awareness and concern For the animals still on display at roadside attractions even today Driving through Florida just last summer for a work trip. We pulled into a gas station that had a giant sign Advertising a free alligator exhibit the alligators were indoors under fluorescent lights They were small and Sort of dried out looking their gaze was as flat and dead-eyed as any gator you might spot in the wild But the enclosure these gators called home was sandwiched between boxes of coconut patties and tie-dyed t-shirts All the way in the back of the store as far from any natural light as you could get There's a pretty tragic looking set up too dismal to even be campy. I Was Approached and the kids recoiled They clearly knew without having to be told This was no place for an alligator of any size It was all over their little faces We Began with the story of the Bristol 8 the gorillas left behind at the Bristol Zoo Gardens in the UK Those gorillas have been promised a happy ending in a new home And now the world is watching to see if that promise is kept Just a few months ago in August 2025 another heartbreaking story of abandoned animals came to light American photojournalist Seth Lawless who has well over half a million followers across multiple social platforms and is famous for documenting abandoned places He posted a video shot by drone inside a closed and defunct Marine Park in France The clip is haunting when Lawless posted it on October 26 2025 He added this caption The mother orca appears dead her body floating motionless and murky water beside her son But this wasn't the ocean These whales were left behind inside a closed defunct Marine Park in France This was all that remained when the crowds disappeared and the park closed forever but then She moved Looking straight up at my drone Curious gentle almost relieved After all this time They weren't alone anymore It was as if they recognized me as if hope itself would come back to visit And what happened next was?

heartbreaking and beautiful The two began to perform as if remembering what it meant to be seen They started to move slowly at first and then with joy leaping twirling Performing the only language they were ever taught but this time There was no crowd Just me and their longing to be free Their bodies cut through the still water like memories coming back to life spinning Rising falling as if the ghosts of applause still echoed somewhere in their minds They still have hope and their story isn't over unless we let it To the 55 million people who share my posts our voices have already sent waves crashing against the French government Since my videos have gone viral the French government has publicly said they're now fully engaged This is the moment. We push even harder Please share their voices with the entire world the two orcas Tiwiki who's 23 and her son Keijo 11 were floating in the stagnant waters of the abandoned marine land of Antibes This park was once one of Europe's biggest marine attractions But it was closed earlier this year following a new French animal welfare law banning orca performances the irony right Save the orcas from performing only to leave them all alone in an empty park That video went viral and Seth Lawless was in trouble for trespassing Breaking the law the French authorities want to arrest him But so far haven't yet formally asked that he be extradited to France Which makes you think that maybe it's all sound and fury Because by making Seth Lawless not his real name, by the way into a criminal They can distract you from the wrenching and devastating truth that these two incredibly intelligent mammals have been Left behind And before you go, yeah, but they don't own different just fish No, they're not fish. They're mammals like you They're apex predators with complex social relationships and even unique Vocalizations that they pass from one generation to the next they have great eyesight great hearing They form pods and clans and have demonstrated behaviors that look an awful lot like friendship They're alive and they're aware and even if they were just fish They still wouldn't deserve the fate that Wilkie and Kehoe have been condemned to Any more than Seth Lawless deserves to be prosecuted for sharing their fate with the world People are so terrible and so wonderful and often both at the same time You really see that in the way we treat animals the way we forget that we're animals too the way we have to learn over and over that Sometimes the only path to the right thing is through a whole wilderness of the wrong things Like Seth Lawless breaking into marine land of Antibes like Joe exotic capturing the attention of a pandemic stunned world The eye-popping bleached-out mullet spectacle that is the Tiger King gave us all something to talk about and It awakened a whole new generation to the truth of just what goes on at those goofy animal attractions conveniently located off the bypass Take us out Joe The wild

You can make it Just All this Well, I was Found here I found the key I gave my Those in me Next time on true weird stuff No one heard the phantom coming. No one saw the phantoms face and No one ever forgot the terror of those months months when movies played to empty theaters city streets Deserted porch lights blazed all night long as residents cowered behind the locked doors eight people attacked five people slaughtered Who was the phantom?

Find out on the next true weird stuff special Thanks to our voice talents on this episode Erin Cox Sam Moore Kary "Doc" Bowser Lamar Richardson and introducing Jeff Davis When I heard you were doing the story I was able to recall the time as a child that our family drove cross-country So we drove from east to west when we West to east to come home to but I remember this When we started getting in some areas that were kind of desolate that there were these souvenir places and gas stations that had animals Now we never stopped but I remembered the big one was Buffalo because at that time Buffalo were really I don't know Buffalo Bison. I Remember they were an endangered I mean severely endangered at that point that has since gotten better but all these places had Buffalo come see the Buffalo because that was kind of an exotic thing and I remembered those places and I was able in my mind's eye to be able to see those places on the side of the Road with hand-painted signs for miles ahead of time See the Buffalo see the Buffalo until you got to the gas station of the souvenir place And it really was a wild time wasn't it really was I I am I am such an animal lover and It breaks my heart to hear all of this and how these animals were mistreated You know, what's the one thing that they say a lot about a lot of people that are serial killers?

It's how they treated animals as a child and the fact that they had no empathy for them And here you are these people running these gambling houses and roadside stands that are treating animals in very much the same way. I Tried really hard to not, you know linger lovingly on descriptions of atrocities committed to these animals because that's That's a choice that you can make but it's a it's a hard choice to listen to don't you think I mean It isn't it enough that we had the guy in to call Georgia leave his wife and his baboons to starve in his backyard And that wasn't that long ago, and I just have to say what in the ever-loving What are we thinking if you know that your neighbor has eight baboons in a shed in the backyard?

I mean did this is not 200 years ago folks. This is like the 70s And yeah, of course, you know that the thing is There was as people say when they talk about the pandemic there was the Joe exotic part of the pandemic Which was right at the very beginning when we were all Fascinated and horrified, but what had been going on with this man?

The Joe the Joe exotic thing it gave people It gave people something in common. That was That wasn't the virus in the beginning of the kovat pandemic It also did I have to say, you know, the universe is is constantly seeking balance You know that all this awful stuff this good stuff this ugliness this beauty The Joe exotic documentary on Netflix, I think would have been a hit under any circumstances But the timing of it Really was a huge difference maker and how people are now thinking about These roadside animal attractions and and how these animals are now being protected What people are paying much more attention now that the Joe exotic thing?

Came out and showed people just because you have these animals doesn't mean you're caring properly for these animals and You give the people of the past We're constantly giving them a little the past gets a pass a little bit because folks didn't know any better It's hard for us with our 2025 brains To think that feeding bears a steady diet of cornmeal mush and root beer is a strategy that makes For the bear. I mean, there's like very little nutrition in cornmeal mush and root beer, right, right?

But that was you know, that was what was happening and you had these sugar addicted bears Some of them that this one ladies bears were on the root beer drip You had other bears that were hooked on orange Fanta, I mean it was just crazy and These animals if they were sick or injured Most of the time they didn't get care Because we're allowed to suffer and die a lot of those exotic animals. It's that's a specialty of Veterinary medicine and for a lot of these places I'm sure there was no one around that had any expertise in dealing with the health concerns of some of these animals Even even alligators, which it's it's hard to be too cuddly About alligators, but still you don't want to see any animal Mistreated anywhere. I don't care how vile they are Even even snakes and whatnot because it's just it's not fair to it's just not fair to the animal But Sherry the gorilla story that you told that you led into and then came back to at the end It was heartbreaking and I think that after we did the episode gorillas in the myth a couple weeks ago I've had a new Understanding of gorillas. I sort of accepted that they were around but to just listen to what had happened to them Really was sad. And even though they said well, they weren't really abandoned with a They were and and the orca story. Oh my god Huh, oh my god the orca story, ah Yeah, the eight gorillas that were left behind at the Bristol zoological garden, so you have to decide Which which side you're going to sit on are you going to sit with the zoo's director who said listen?

These animals will be moving to their new habitat They are fine where they are. They are being cared for they're having a break from being stared at they're having a little respite from being a spectacle and And stop stop picking the lock and scaring them because as a result of the break-ins They now put the gorillas indoors there at night whereas before they were letting they were leaving the gates open and the gorillas could go from the indoor part of their enclosure to the Outdoor as they chose 24-7 and now the the gorillas are on nighttime lockdown So that's what the zoo is saying they're going you're you this is not what you say It is and you're actually making it worse for them. And then there's what?

the people who broke into the Bristol garden to say which is these gorillas were abandoned and They're tapping on the glass to get our attention because they're sad as you heard in this episode Gorillas and zoos. These are very intelligent very sensitive animals Gorillas and zoos have done wonderful things like children who've fallen into enclosures have been lifted up and protected by gorillas But they've also done things that demonstrate their agitation. They've charged The glass at enclosures and have put on threatening displays in response to being taunted and jeered at and teased so You know pick your poison, but I hear what the zoo director is saying at Bristol which is They are not suffering. They suffer more when you come see them then they're suffering right now I don't know where you come down on that Well, I mean the thing is it that's a very difficult situation because you know, we we learned about gorillas that They're not easy to transport They're very strong. It would be very difficult to know what to do in that situation So, I suppose you could and I don't know that I'm necessarily in this camp But it's like you shouldn't have you shouldn't be putting them in zoos at all And that way you wouldn't have this problem, you know and and even as we say that we recognize that zoos are critical to the Conservation of a species like the gorilla because there are so few of them, right?

left in the in the world The thing with the Bristol eight So because gorillas live in social they live in social groups and those eight gorillas They have a they have a clear social order. They have to sedate all of the animals and move them all at once and Wherever they took them. This was the zoo's position wherever we moved them would be temporary and we'd have to move them again and The stress that it places on these animals is just incalculable So the decision was made Let's move them once and when they go to their new enclosure It's going to be in as in a zoo setting that is more familiar. I think to American kids now Then the then the Victorian zoo model and I hear people complain who go to like big Wide open zoos like the North Carolina Zoo. They're like, oh the elephants are so far away You can't even see the rhinoceros. Where's the giraffe? Well those animals who live at that zoo those those zookeepers are trying to Replicate their natural conditions more closely than putting them in house Charming little Victorian house like why did no one understand that the giraffe is very tall. It's going to need taller ceilings It's little things like this That go back to when the in the case of the Bristol Zoo when it was built and opened in the 1800s people had a different understanding completely about animals and what they needed and and Again, when you hear that the Animal Welfare Act didn't even wasn't even a thing until the 1960s like a hundred and plus years After these zoos were built It'd be real like we have to acknowledge We have to acknowledge that we weren't perfect in the past and you know, there's an effort being made now to be better is It perfect. No, would it be amazing if all of the animals could live in their habitats and not be in cages?

That'd be the shizzle But the reality is is we're encroaching on like in the gorillas case. We are encroaching on their habitat They're running out of places to live and we're not only encroaching. We're poaching And we're eating them. We're selling their flesh as bush meat. We're whacking off their hands as souvenirs We're killing them sometimes because a rich Hunter has come in and paid us to lead us lead them to a gorilla All right, so that that hunter can get a trophy So when you're up against that you go well a properly run zoo with a proper Conservation program is not the worst thing ever. I Story is that there are certain animals?

Where I live, I mean, I couldn't keep I couldn't keep a lion in my apartment Mojo wouldn't be pleased about it But I couldn't keep a lion in my apartment because they have zoning laws and I'm surprised that zoning laws are not the thing That could shut this down You know, I mean well zoning was one of Zoning is one of the few tools that local Governments municipal or state what have you it's one of the few things they have That is meaningful because it can be hard to get people to give a damn When we're talking about well, what about this chimpanzees welfare, right?

It can be harder than you want to think to get people to care But as soon as you get into zoning You can these these places have been able to make a pretty good argument for why these attractions shouldn't be permitted and If you think about how many things in your newsfeed just over the past years Have sort of all those threads come together in this story. You've been hearing about the invasive Burmese python in the Everglades. Mm-hmm Right, right and going back to the 70s, you know when they were trying to keep Venomous cobras from being released into the wild Think about a world where there's cobras potentially in the Everglades. It's crazy It's crazy um, I just Like I said, I'm very I'm very big-hearted about animals and I don't want to see any animals suffer. I can't even watch that the sad The sad animal video For Sarah McLaughlin, she's not even doing it anymore and she's she'll be forever connected to it I can't even watch those because it's too heartbreaking and to just think that these Any animals being mistreated anything is being mistreated anywhere. It's just it's so heartbreaking and sad for me It really I mean That was the thing about this this story That was the thing for me too it was um part of what made me Do this one is when I was working on gorillas in the myth, not surprisingly The the Bristol eight those eight girl a band quote-unquote abandoned. I'm not sure that's the right word those left behind gorillas I Thought a lot about them and I didn't put them in that episode Because I thought I suspect there's more to this story and I began doing a little digging and Some of what you come across like back in the 20s and 30s Man, people were crazy You know, you'd have some guy You'd have some bearded loner out there in the heartland. Who's like, let me tell you what I like. I like me a bobcat We'll go collect them and now he's living with bobcats Charging people a few bucks to come look at them. It was that sort of like whatever kind of a frontier vibe and I think that you had mentioned this in the story this sort of coincided with us being more mobile as a country because of Automobiles and then roads got better too. And so there were more opportunities for For people to try to make money by having whatever exotic animal at their place of business That was kind of like the fun Easter egg for me in this because you know as Americans We we have car culture running in our veins. Like we are so we don't even comprehend the ways that geography shape our American identity our country is so damn big that we can have something called car culture You get into a country like Denmark. They do not have car culture Nobody mean like you you can jog from one end to the next like you they don't have these long empty expanses of interstate unfolding like asphalt ribbons across the landscape car culture changed everything and Once you had Americans post-world war two, you've got this like economic boom The suburbs are exploding people are suddenly able to Buy a house and provide for their family on a single income, which sounds like a fairy tale now and cars Now you've got families loading up in cars and it's a giant ass novelty and it's not just a road trip vacation Do you remember a time in this country? It's not our time We've just had to read about it and hear about it from parents and grandparents the Sunday Drive oh

Yeah, I And it was a thing and in fact My in growing up that was a thing with my parents So I can think of many times that we would go where we're gonna go Well, let's go look and see the new interstate highway that's opened up for the new The new whatever and so my parents were very big on that They're doing a Sunday Drive Now can you imagine in this in today's world with traffic road rage and gas prices the Sunday Drive I Know people still do it, but let's not kid ourselves. It's not a thing anymore No, uh-uh the way that it once was because it was such a powerful novelty So it is part of it's so entrepreneurial It's so baked into the whole myth of America and the American spirit This idea that people went. Hmm Folks have cars and they're on the road How can I how can I make a business out of that or how can I leverage that for my existing business?

when you think about it that way, it's charming and entrepreneurial and Creative and ballsy and all of the things that we celebrate about, you know, mythic American culture all of those things But it's the other side of that same mythic shiny Entrepreneurial coin that it was also janky bizarre Vaguely criminal and really really a mess Depending on which roadside zoo you pulled up to well Give human beings the opportunity to To be able to skirt whatever the laws are and think it's a really great idea. I Mean and do deplorable things still do it. I'll take it. Yeah And I wanted to be sure to to be fair because that you're looking at this girl loves a roadside attraction If I'm I will go 20 miles out of my way and look at a statue of a pelican Yeah, okay Yeah like I am a nightmare to be in the car with because I want to pull off everywhere and go everywhere and be ripped off ten ways to Sunday at the mystery hill and the Gator Ranch and whatever you got I can't get enough. I Want it to be fair and tell you a story of a couple of really good operators like Bob Lehman who never charged a nickel and those animals were Healthy their their conditions were as good as they could be for you know living at the Chicagoland service station and in his house He raised his kids with lions in the living room and a chimp for a babysitter. Yeah in their house animal lover Absolutely, he said he researched what would be good to feed them. He mucked out stalls and cages he absolutely had such a passion for those animals and and shared them with people who came to his gas station as opposed to using them to draw business and There are places like that that sometimes people are critical and they'll go well, isn't that a roadside zoo?

No, that's actually a rescue. That's actually a sanctuary. And and if you dug a little deeper you would see how beautifully Passionate the people who work there are about the animals in their care. We have a true weird stuff listener I won't say his name because I don't want to embarrass him or get him in trouble but we have a true weird stuff listener who works with big cats at a sanctuary and I love this place where he works that we've taken the kids there so many times He he would do anything for these animals Anything if one of them needed a kidney and he was a match bill would give them a kidney The people who work with animals like this are just next level But you do have like the gas station we went into outside Tampa Like come on These these alligators do not belong here under this fluorescent light in a in an enclosure the size of a Tupperware storage bin And please don't tell me that alligators are assholes and they don't deserve anything. That's not right either the wasps are the only ones that you can do that to I I I have done TV commercials with animals One of them was with cows so they cows live at a place called Hollywild and so this is a It's an animal preserve and these animals live there and then you can go actually go to see them as a zoo And they will even tell you if you go to the zoo They'll go this animal has appeared in commercials for blah blah blah blah blah Whatever whatever it is And those people are near fanatic about taking care of those animals and making sure that those animals are well cared for Despite what the situation is I think I worked with one of their Animals so early in my radio career We did a tv commercial We wrote it ourselves What i'm about to say makes me realize why the industry might not love us as much as they could We we cast the radio station program director. We cast a chimpanzee to play that part So The the folks they come to they come to shoot the tv commercial with the chimp and they're big like when you're sitting next to one on a couch, I I was surprised. I think in my my mind. I was thinking capuchin a chimp is a big big animal So he comes the chimp comes and he's wearing little britches And um, i'm sitting next to him on the couch. The handler is like let's just spend some quiet time together Let's let you two get familiar with each other because the chimp and I had a kissing scene um, and so That's right. Yeah And so the chimp is going to be in my face And of course, um, our co-worker is beside himself. Do not kiss that animal. What if that animal tears your face off?

There will be no amount of plastic surgery I mean he was like frantic and of course i'm a big freaking simpleton who loves animals and can't believe I get to spend my day with a Hollywood chimp So we're sitting on the couch. I am wearing black tights black boots. Um a mini skirt and a sweater As we're sitting next to each other on this couch this chimp He's he takes his hand and he starts down by my ankle and he runs his hand up my leg up under my skirt And the trainer has said to me just you know, be cool. Just be relaxed. Let him let him get your vibe Uh So basically in order for this chimp to perform I have to let this boy get to second base Or maybe he's at third base. I don't even know So I say to the handler now the chimp is the chimp's hand is up under my skirt He's heading for the he's heading for home base. And I so I say to the handler. I don't typically Um, you know, I went to catholic school like we don't really do this on the first date And the handler's like oh he is so bad I forget the chimp's name stop that bongo or whatever his name was So we do the shoot and the chimp is he's trained. He's done a lot of tv and movies Um, he's very intelligent and you know what he was bored To tears and you could tell And I really thought about that later like it was such a fun novelty for us And for him it was like oh cripes Are we ever going to get?

No, not another take i'm done. I'm ready to go um, and I thought a lot about that and I have in the years since that Like I had the privilege to work with this incredibly intelligent cousin And didn't understand at the time I I think I would I think differently about it now, you know, if you had that opportunity max Would you not think differently about it now? I I may yeah, I I think so I mean because I was working the one that I recall I was working with cows And um, you know The cows just sort of stood there Except sometimes they'd stand there and then you know, we're working indoors in a sound stage and they'd let loose And so then the agency and the client were trying to determine whose job it was to clean that up um I do and I had to stand next to them and I had to hold them, you know So I they're big and they're really big animals um, but That's my my experience with working with working with kids and animals and i've worked with kids too sherry Okay, and the and the kids will also just let loose when they need to yeah, this was so yeah I had to play I had and I had to play a terrible part. I had to be a child abuser in this Um in this, uh, it was like a public service announcement and I had to be awful and those kids had to cower at me Oh god, you're the last person Acting I take it on your go Um, yeah, we don't like we don't know We're not veterinarians or animal experts. We don't know anything about nothing But it just it just does seem That you can't you can't throw you can't lump all roadside animal attractions into the same basket. That's not fair There are some that are deplorable and there are some that are trying so hard To provide these animals with appropriate dignified safe shelter But it is a thing and you know people hate the government Like I said in the episode people are constantly bitching and moaning about the government. Oh the government. Oh the government well when you have toothless Laws like the animal welfare act. That's a basically like it would be great if y'all would do this, but if that's on you What do you expect?

Do you know how many laws we have like that? Where we're like, well, this would be optimal We think but we're going to leave it up to you And what's the alternative you know that we're going to live in some oppressive top-down police That's yeah, that's always the conundrum in this country. So But that's the beauty of the american experiment The beauty of the american experiment is you are going to have some asshole on the side of the road Who feeds his bear root beer, but you're also going to have an incredible sanctuary that takes in animals that Are losing their homes because the zoo has closed You know, we got some of all of that and I think most people most people There are good and their hearts are good and they would not take pleasure in seeing an animal suffer most people I think I in fact, I think most people Do not take pleasure in animal suffering And and yet are fine with people suffering in some ways I think you know, there's a protective quality that we there's a protectiveness we feel toward Animals, just look on facebook people go. I love my animals. I hate people You see that all the time I've often said like about our radio show Our audience would follow you to the ends of the earth And publicly flog you for hurting an animal But if you kicked somebody's grandma that bitch might have had it coming. Have you met her?

There's a whole different whole different sensibility where people are concerned and animals, you know They need us to be protectors even as they are not subordinate to us or inferior to us. They're just different I think that's the thing about it. I think that you you do have to realize that especially with these mammals There's orcas sherry. Can we get back to that story? Oh my god. That was so heartbreaking. I mean so heartbreaking When you go back to that you realize there is a lot more to these animals than you think It's like I look at I look at mojo the schnauzer that I have I think he understands a whole lot more than i'll ever know about what's going on with certain situations. I agree with you He also has a very um, he's very attuned to emotions He knows when you're not doing well, and he clings to you during that time. Like don't worry. I'm here to help so I think that You saw that with so many of those All the orcas and the gorillas and all of them. They are sentient, you know, they they do have feelings So let's talk about the orcas because I think I think you're watching a very interesting um power struggle and Political theater performance being acted out around seth lawless and those orcas So think about this and this is just this is just me talking like I don't know nothing about know-how nothing But here's what i'm thinking the french government Has to say that he broke the law And he's in trouble But they can't really do anything with that because the last thing they want is to First of all, they have to get him extradited They have to extradite him to france arrest him and charge him and then we have to have a trial And in that trial seth's going to play his videos and show his photos. His defense is going to do that And you're going to have to make the case as the french government To why these orcas are swimming alone in filthy pools and performing for a drone And I think you're going to look bad And you know it so It's you are bad for trespassing and we're going to come and get you And then pray with everything you have the news cycle moves on And people forget What do you think?

Can you do you I I usually submit all my questions in writing beforehand, but i'm not this one Is is that something you can see somewhere the the videos that he has? Go, follow seth lawless on um instagram. That would be the the one he posts a lot of his stuff on instagram And I think let me i'll give you his let me pull it up. I'll give you his handle because of my own enthusiasm for trespassing um I've been a fan of his for many many years he does beautiful work most of his stuff is um, honestly, it's you know abandoned homes and Mansions and and that sort of thing. I'm i'm just I think i'm seeing the some of the some of this stuff on his yeah So I can't remember if he's at seth lawless or if it's abandoned places. Are you do you see the name of the account?

Seth lawless with a blue seph Seph lawless like it sounds and it's the one with the blue check And you do find there's follow by Sheri Lynch. There it is And you won't this is this is not a you will not regret this follow Um, you'll you'll find so many cool things. He posts beautiful images. He's an incredible photographer And he goes into all sorts of cool stuff Um, it's not just Marine land. It's not just although if you look at his instagram today, there's a lot of videos of those lot of videos of those animals But I think that um, I suspect that the french government is gonna You know thunder on and grumble and grouse and we're never going to see much of anything come of it You know what? I haven't heard And maybe it's out there and I just haven't I haven't found it yet The director of the Bristol Zoo Gardens could not get to a microphone fast enough to say No, you don't we did not abandon those animals You need to sit down and listen to facts, right? I haven't found that for marine land yet I haven't found that I need to look for it again. It's been a few days. It's in france, right? It was yeah, it's in nt in france. Yeah Yeah And we have our own checkered history with marine parks in this country. Look at the boycotts and protests at sea world I mean these animals sometimes You know, we've had trainers attacked and killed in marine parks in this country And oh the animal oh the animal is so bad um That's an interesting now we should get my daughter the philosopher caristotle on That's an interesting thing to say the animal is bad Is the animal bad or is the animal acting out?

its Nature and the pressures that it's experiencing and threats from its environment, right? Is the animal losing its mind because of the way that we're keeping it and treating it? That's a whole nother question for a whole nother episode, you know, can an animal be bad? Can an animal be good? We know that that's true for dogs Right. Can a wild animal?

You know, we see dogs do extraordinary things can a wild animal Can we assign morality? To gorillas and orcas and bears. It's an interesting question. Oh my Oh my yeah So that's that for this episode of true weird stuff next week. We're we're heading Heading down into a part of the country that was besieged by the phantom killer And the unsettling thing about that is whoever that phantom killer was it was definitely somebody's son and You know statistically speaking probably somebody's brother But it's also someone who got away with murder And it might have been somebody's husband or daddy or granddaddy I can't wait for this episode And it is The details of it are horrifying and speaking of automobile culture It we didn't have any such thing as a lover's lane until people got cars and I want you to think about America's Dark history with crime and lover's lane all the way up to the present day I mean son of sam anyone right?

Yeah So let's uh, we'll see you for that episode the phantom killer And um, if you're listening to this when we actually released it You're getting close to thanksgiving and if you celebrate we hope you have a fabulous amazing holiday And that um, you don't get in it into any drunken fisticuffs with your family members But if you do we'd like to hear all yeah, we would you know Just for research purposes. Yeah, just and to make and to sympathize with you We'll take your side and it's it's therapeutic for you to release that information. You don't carry the burden of it so if you and your Bad cousin billy steve wean Get into it Here at true weird stuff. We'd like to hear your side of events. Have a great day We'll see you for the next episode Thank you for listening And if you listen to us on apple podcast hit the plus button in the top right corner And now it helps an independent podcast like ours to get discovered and we really appreciate it If you subscribe rate and review true weird stuff hit our website true weird stuff.com For show notes and photos and videos when we have it and bonus content Everything true weird is waiting for you at true weird stuff dot com and follow true weird stuff on instagram True weird stuff is a Now! Media production. Our executive producer is anthony garcia The show is written and hosted by me Sheri Lynch along with my deeply weird director Max Sweeten Our equally odd producer is Kary Bowser additional production by the mysterious Stephen Call Our digital witch and social media cult leader is Heather Furr original graphics by kevin nash original artworks by Olivia Axland true weird original music composed and performed by jack griffin and Zane Nash copyright 2025 Now! Media all rights reserved all wrongs remembered