Case file 154Sideshows, Stardom & Spectacle1900–1945

Tilt-A-Whirl: From a Kitchen Table to the American Midway

Herbert Sellner rocked his baby son in a chair on a table and invented an American icon. Four generations, two early deaths, one Minnesota town.

Sep 18, 20261h 25m
00:00 / 1:25:04
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In this episode

  • Why the modern American amusement park was invented by railroad companies with empty seats to fill
  • The Swooper: thirteen tons, fifteen ever built, and why operators loved it anyway
  • Four thousand two hundred thirty-three riders in seven days — what the 1927 Minnesota State Fair started
  • What carnival operators actually cared about when they bought a ride, and why it had nothing to do with fun
  • Bruce Sellner, the grandson with a notebook of doodles — and the one line his insurance company drew

“One of the world’s great amusement inventions is a kitchen table invention in a small town in Minnesota in the heartland.”

The story

In 1926, a woodworker in Faribault, Minnesota sat his baby son Arthur in a wooden chair on top of the kitchen table and started rocking it, spinning it, tipping it — the way parents do. The toddler shrieked with laughter and demanded more. Herbert Sellner, who had already built a furniture company, a water toboggan slide and a wooden wheel that dumped swimmers into a lake, looked at the giggling boy on the table and saw a machine.

Japanese gardens and electric lights

Before the Tilt-A-Whirl, an American amusement park meant something gentler. Moxahala Park opened outside Zanesville, Ohio in May 1906 — flower-lined pathways, shade, a cooling breeze, a merry-go-round that would carry you by car or by pony. To the weary toiler, the papers said, it affords a haven of rest.

That lasted about as long as you'd expect in a country that likes its amusements big, brash and a tiny bit dangerous. By 1929 Moxahala was chasing thrills, including a 13-ton contraption called the Swooper — imagine a Ferris wheel stretched into an oval and laid on its side, with fifteen two-seater tubs dragged around it on cables. Operators loved it because they could load four tubs at once instead of one seat at a time. Only fifteen were ever built. The Swooper exists now only in memory. But its inventor was Herb Sellner, and he had one more idea.

The kitchen table, scaled up

The first Tilt-A-Whirl came together in Sellner's neighbor's garden: nine cars, two passengers each. He sold it for $4,500 — roughly $85,000 today — to Wildwood Amusement Park in White Bear Lake, Minnesota. That park existed for a reason worth pausing on. The St. Paul and White Bear Railroad had built it in 1889 purely as bait to get people onto a new rail line. When the railroad folded in the 1890s, Twin Cities Rapid Transit inherited the tracks, the property and the same problem: what do you put out there to make people ride the streetcar? Roller coaster, arcade, fun house, dance pavilions. The modern American amusement park was essentially invented by train companies with seats to fill.

Wildwood's $4,500 gamble pulled in over $30,000 its first year — well over half a million dollars in today's money. Among the earliest riders were 200-plus newsboys from the Daily Star, guests of honor, fed box lunches and ice cream and turned loose on every attraction in the park. A photo in the Minneapolis Star caught dozens of them grinning in a Tilt-A-Whirl car with more boys lined up behind. They were the future arriving: young thrill seekers who wanted novelty, not a picnic in the shade.

Sold by the hour, not the scream

At the 1927 Minnesota State Fair, 4,233 riders handed over fifteen cents each across seven days. Orders piled up. Sellner moved out of the neighbor's garden into a factory on Fowler Street and started iterating like the tinkerer he was — the Model 936, nine cars, 36 riders, pitched to operators at $162 an hour; the Model 728, seven cars painted bright red, $126 an hour. Oak and pine, linoleum floors, cushioned seats, canvas canopies, lap bars. Buy one and you got a collapsible ticket booth with a cash drawer and an entrance sign lit by 28 electric bulbs.

That's the part that gives you a pang. The selling point was electric light. And the whole trade ran on arithmetic, not adrenaline — how fast can four carnies assemble it, how many bodies can you move through it in an hour, can it earn its keep. Sellner's Water Wheel, a perfectly pleasant device that slid bathers into a lake, died precisely because it moved too slowly to pay.

The weird part

The ride that has spun on nearly every American midway for a century was reverse-engineered from a dad's living-room game: Herbert Sellner set his baby son in a wooden chair on top of the kitchen table and shook it until the boy screamed for more. That boy, Arthur, grew up to run the company.

Two inventors, both gone early

Herbert Sellner died of leukemia three years after the first paying riders climbed aboard. He was 43. His brother Martin took over, then Herb's son Arthur — the baby from the kitchen table. By the end of the 1930s more than 150 Tilt-A-Whirls were spinning across the country. The war came, aluminum and then steel were restricted, and the little Faribault factory traded carnival rides for Navy toolkits and munitions while a quarter million American small businesses went under. It survived, and came out the other side into a country that had just invented the teenager — kids with free time, spending money, and a powerful interest in places high on entertainment and low on adult supervision.

Then the gift skipped a generation and landed on Herb's grandson Bruce, born in 1951, who showed up at the family business with a notebook full of doodles. In 1987 he launched Spin the Apple: a car shaped like a giant red apple on a circular track, with a turntable in the middle so riders could spin themselves. It spawned the Berry Go Round, the Barrel of Fun, the Bear Affair. Bruce understood something his grandfather understood too — that half the magic happens before the ride starts, in the moment a four-year-old sees a giant strawberry and decides nothing else matters.

He became president at 26. He filed patents for a rotating spaceship laser-tag ride, including one for a simulated laser weapon that the filing carefully notes was intended strictly as an amusement. He had sarcoidosis, an inflammatory disease that in his case attacked his lungs. He fought it for more than a decade, needed a transplant, was placed on the list, and his insurance company fought it and won. Bruce Sellner died in September 1995 waiting for a donor lung. He was 44 — one year older than the grandfather whose footsteps he'd followed.

The car in the parking lot

His widow Tovah took the helm, later joined by their daughter Erin: four generations of one family. Sellner Manufacturing survived the Depression, the war, the eighties, Y2K, and released the Generation 5 Tilt-A-Whirl in 2004. It did not survive the early 2000s. After missed loan payments to Faribault's Economic Development Authority, the company was sold in 2011 to Larson International of Plainview, Texas — an outfit that had started out building high-clearance tractors before its founder met an inventor with an idea for a ride called Super Loops. A family business built on something else entirely, pulled into the amusement trade by one stranger's notion. Put that in a novel and people would say the world doesn't work like that.

In June 2015, two local business owners tracked down an original Tilt-A-Whirl car in an auto salvage yard, got it donated, raised more than $8,000, and had the History Channel's American Restoration bring it back to factory condition. It sits in downtown Faribault now. And the oldest Tilt-A-Whirl still tilting and whirling is a 1927 model, out working the Midwest with a Missouri carnival company.

The transcript

Chapters & full transcript12,587 words
Chapters
  1. 03:18A haven of rest
  2. 05:19Thirteen tons of Swooper
  3. 12:51The chair on the table
  4. 27:34The grandson's notebook
  5. 36:39Salvage yard to Main Street
  6. 42:31Fifteen cents a turn

This transcript was generated automatically from the episode audio and may contain errors. Times are approximate, since ad breaks can shift them by a minute or two.

00:01

Hey, true weirdos, I hope you know how much all of us here appreciate you. You are the people we're making this show for and your feedback means the world to us. We were so blown away for this show to win as many awards as it has. I mean, at this point, we're working for hardware handouts, but at the end of the day it's you.

00:21

People will walk up to us on the street. I had a guy wave at me wearing a True Weird Stuff t-shirt at the park. It just is the coolest thing and that's 100% you and thank you. And we're just covering costs to be able to present this to you. We're not really making any money with it, so if you could do us a favor and patronize any sponsors that you hear throughout the show, that would be great.

00:44

Also, just go on whatever platform you listen to it and please rate and review it. It really helps us in getting discovered. And if you have a suggestion for anything, just reach out to us at our website, True Weird Stuff dot com. And thank you so much for listening. Whether it's a strip mall carnival or the state fair, there's just something about strolling the midway, munching a deep fried snack, speared on a stick, strip of tickets for the ride stuffed into the pocket, the Ferris wheel, of course, merry go round.

01:21

Those are the classics sedate enough for your grandma, exciting enough for the littles, the Himalaya, the zipper, the Graviton, the scrambler, a.k.a. the big kid rides, the ones that whip you around and make you scream, maybe even puke up that corndog you wolfed down while you were standing in line. And in almost every fair, every carnival, every boardwalk amusement pier, you'll find a granddaddy ride of them all, a ride that hasn't changed much since it was first invented.

01:54

It's just no longer made of wood and powered by gasoline. It doesn't defy gravity. It's not particularly fast, no terrifying heights, no being plunged into darkness. It's not one of those rides where you think even if just for an instant, this thing could actually kill me. The latest invention in riding devices has more thrills than all rides put together.

02:17

The most sensational ride ever invented. The first dozen or so were built in the inventor's basement and backyard. Then came the moment for its big debut on the world stage, the 1927 Minnesota State Fair. The sensational new driving device, the first one of its kind. See it, ride it, experience the amazing thrill for yourself of the Tilt-A-Whirl.

03:11

Truly weird stuff. On May 15th, 1906, a place called Moxahala State Park opened to the public in southeastern Ohio. It was an amusement park in the grand tradition of the times. Public land set aside for picnics and strolls. The star attraction was the beauty of nature, the peaceful serenity of gardens and pathways lined with flowers.

03:44

Very different from the modern amusement parks of our day with rides and concessions and shows. No greater boon could have been devised for the people of Zanesville than Moxahala Park. To the weary toiler, it affords a haven of rest. The park is in the country and is a part of the country. Its natural beauty has not been marred by the erection of cheap buildings.

04:08

A merry-go-round will soon be ready to carry passengers either by car or by pony. The park is splendidly equipped with all that tends to furnish amusement and entertainment to those who seek that sort of thing. But it also affords rest, shade and a cooling breeze to the weary. That worked well for a while, but this is America, a country that likes its amusements big, brash, colorful, noisy and just the tiniest bit dangerous.

04:38

Japanese gardens and shrub-lined walkways are fine, but people want it to be entertained. They want it to be a spectacle. At first, Moxahala Park delivered hosting picnics, dances, baseball games and fireworks. It was even thrilling just to see the park at night illuminated by the glow of real electric lights. It was a big, big success, but times and people change.

05:06

In 1929, the park was doing its best to live up to its motto, something new and something different. That's when many new concessions and thrill rides made their debut there, including the Swooper. The Swooper is difficult to describe. It is a high ride, but does not depend merely on height to thrill its patrons. Upon entering the Swooper, one gradually starts out on a straightaway, then suddenly swoops into the air at about three times the speed of the straightaway.

05:38

And then after gliding, starting ahead for quite a distance, the speed is again increased with a swoop back to the starting place. The Swooper. Picture a Ferris wheel, but make the wheel an elongated oval and turn it onto its side. The oval was held in a stationary framework and it didn't move. Now add 15 two-seater cars or tubs, as they called them.

06:04

Each tub was attached to a pair of arms and was pulled around the oval by a pair of cables. As the tubs were moved along the cables track, they would reach the end of the oval and swoop down beneath it and then be carried back to the top in another swoop to do it again. Ride operators loved it because they could stop the ride and load four tubs at a time with two passengers each.

06:29

So much more efficient and profitable than a Ferris wheel, where only one seat at a time could be stopped to reload it. Despite the fact that the Swooper weighed 13 tons, it was popular with traveling carnivals because it was easy to put together. The company that manufactured the Swooper boasted in their brochure that it would only four carnies six hours to assemble it and tear down was even faster.

06:54

But 13 tons was a lot of weight to haul. Only 15 Swooper rides were ever manufactured and now the Swooper exists only in memory. But the Swooper's inventor gave America another amusement park ride. One that is a fixture now at county fairs and state fairs and strip mall carnivals everywhere. A ride that's been woven so deeply into American pop culture that it was immortalized by the boss himself, Bruce Springsteen.

07:47

It's fitting that the Tilt-A-Whirl, that icon of Americana, was born in the heartland of Minnesota. One of the oldest communities in the state, the town of Faribault was a busy place even before Minnesota was recognized as a U.S. territory, much less a state. In 1927, Faribault was humming with industry. There were more than 30 different factories employing over 2,000 people.

08:14

One of those factories was called the Sellner Manufacturing Company. Herbert Sellner was born in Faribault in 1887. He was the son of a talented cabinetmaker and the boy, like his dad, was a gifted woodworker. He was just 25 years old in 1912 when he established the Sellner Woodcraft Company right there in his hometown.

08:36

They made mission style furniture, pieces crafted of solid wood with minimal adornment along with lamps, telephone tables, magazine racks, and other wooden items. When World War I impacted Sellner's ability to access supplies, he shifted production and began making wooden toys for children. Before the World War, the Sellner brothers were just getting well started in the manufacture of toys and go-karts, etc.

09:04

The government closed the factory on the grounds that it was non-essential. The three brothers, Herbert, Martin, and L.W., all went into the army. When the war was over, they returned to Faribault and had to start all over again, which they did with tremendous success. One of the brothers, Herb Sellner, had that thing that no one can really teach.

09:30

It's something you're born with. Herb Sellner was an inventor. One with big, whimsical sorts of ideas. The kinds of ideas that tend to sound a little bit crazy. Like Sellner's water toboggan slide. It was 1923. Sellner built a slide 30 feet tall with a 100 foot long track. Since riders would have to climb to the top carrying a sled or toboggan, Sellner built the slide with raised treads.

09:59

It was easier to climb and it moved riders through more quickly and efficiently. Once at the top, a rider would sit astride the toboggan and ride the incline straight down into a lake. Businessman that he was, Sellner calculated that by supplying the ride operator with 12 toboggans per slide, priced at 50 cents per ride, an operator could rake in as much as $6 an hour.

10:24

That's 117 bucks to you and me. Good money for an attraction that took up space of only 18 by 100 feet. It took off, became hugely popular in the U.S., Canada and Sweden. So popular that Sellner created a winter toboggan slide in two sizes. The smaller one just for kids. The Sellner Kitty Winter Toboggan Slide is a practical winter sports device for children.

10:53

It is of strong construction, easy to assemble and can be erected in yards adjacent to residences, in parks and on school grounds. It is 8 feet high and the track is 22 feet long. The slide is sold complete with two Sellner sleds. No icing of the winter track is required as the slides are equipped with wheels which carry them down the slide.

11:18

Sled runners then carry them across the ice or snow. It is absolutely safe for children to use. Dude, that was the time to be a kid in America, wasn't it? Rocketing 22 feet down a wooden track on your little sled, then flying across the ice or snow, little woolen hat, the only thing protecting your little head. What could possibly go wrong?

11:48

Sellner's next invention was called the Water Wheel. He applied for the patent in 1925 and unlike the Water Toboggan, which is still a popular ride at amusement parks all over the world, the Water Wheel didn't survive. Which is too bad because it looks like a low-key, low-stakes good time. The patent application describes a wooden wheel 8 feet tall with a diving platform.

12:13

Swimmers could sit atop the wheel or lie on it face up or face down and then as it rotated, slide with a splash straight into the water. The design drawings filed with the patent are as silly as they are sedate. The Water Wheel contributes to the joyous excitement of bathing. And yet that joyous excitement just wasn't enough.

12:34

Though the absence of any speed or thrills probably isn't what doomed Sellner's Water Wheel. Carnival and fair operators were looking for attractions that offered maximum profitability. The Water Wheel just moved too slowly. It couldn't earn its keep. Sellner had another idea though. One inspired by a game he'd made up for his baby son, Arthur.

12:56

Sellner would sit the little boy in a wooden chair that was placed atop a table. Then he'd move the table, rocking it, spinning it. The toddler in fits and giggles screaming for more again. Inspiration struck. The inventor and Herb Sellner saw the possibilities. He got busy building. The very first Tilt-A-Whirl came together in 1926 in Sellner's neighbor's garden.

13:23

It had nine cars, each holding two passengers. Sellner sold it for $4,500. That's about $85,000 to us. The buyer was the Wildwood Amusement Park in White Bear Lake, Minnesota. That park was built in 1889 by the St. Paul and White Bear Railroad as a lure to encourage people to take the newly built rail line out to White Bear Lake.

13:50

It was an idea that mostly failed, in part because other than have a picnic, there just wasn't much to do at Wildwood. Then the St. Paul and White Bear Railroad shut down, a casualty of the depressed mid-1890s economy. Twin Cities Rapid Transit took over the rail line and found itself the owner of Wildwood Amusement Park.

14:10

With park admission free, the plan was to make money from attractions and concessions and the fares collected from the 60-mile-per-hour streetcar ride that took folks from the Twin Cities out to Wildwood. Instead of serene Japanese gardens, visitors to Wildwood were greeted by a roller coaster, arcade games, and a fun house.

14:33

There was a beach with bathhouses and bathing suit rentals. There were fishing boats to rent and motor boats and live bands playing at the dance pavilions. And in 1927, the new season at Wildwood kicked off with their newest attraction, the Tilt-A-Whirl. It was a smashing success and a good investment. The $4,500 the park spent on Sellner's newest ride raked in over $30,000 in profits that first year.

15:03

That's an amount equivalent to well over half a million bucks today. Some of the very first riders on Wildwood's new Tilt-A-Whirl were a group of 200-plus newsboys for the Daily Star newspaper. This is an anecdote from a now-lost world. One photo that ran in the Minneapolis Star showed dozens of boys grinning in delight in a Tilt-A-Whirl car.

15:28

More boys lined up waiting their turn. So many boys. It's a beautiful photo, achingly sweet. It's an image that's now nearly a century old. The newsboys were the guests of honor of Wildwood Park Management, which spared no effort to give them the time of their young lives. Every feature of the park was open to the boys, and there were numerous sporting events.

15:53

The boys ate box lunches furnished by Williams Box Lunch Company, ice cream from Kemp's, and delicacies from the Jordan Stevens Company. Somewhere in the heartland, at least two generations grew up hearing about when Dad or Grandad, or maybe even Great Grandad, spent the day being treated like a superstar at Wildwood Park.

16:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Pops, I know, I know. You rode on one of the first Tilt-A-Whirls. What's that? Oh, that's right. You earned a nickel a day delivering newspapers on your bicycle, and you were glad to get it. Not like these kids today who expect the world to be handed to them. We're addicted to screens and blah, blah, blah, blah.

16:33

Like I said, a lost world, a vanished world. But on that August afternoon in 1927, those newsboys brought the future to Wildwood. They represented a new kind of customer for the American Amusement Park. Young thrill seekers who wanted adventure, not a leisurely picnic in the shade. They wanted to be entertained. They craved novelty.

17:00

And there it was, Herbert Sellner's kitchen table daydream, the Tilt-A-Whirl. It was a no-brainer for the Tilt-A-Whirl to be made a feature attraction at the Minnesota State Fair. It had been born right there in the state, the pride of the town of Faribault. The fair lasted only seven days, and in that time, 4,233 riders handed over 15 cents each to take their turn.

17:31

Mr. Sellner's Tilt-A-Whirl is a new combination of the principles of the whip, the caterpillar, and the ocean wave. The company is stocked with orders for this latest device that will keep the factory running until next winter. With that kind of success, Sellner had to move his Tilt-A-Whirl business out of the neighbor's garden and into a factory to be built on Fowler Street in Faribault.

17:50

Like any good tinkerer, he'd already dreamed up improvements and modifications to his first design. 1928 saw the release of the Model 936 Tilt-A-Whirl. Its nine cars could accommodate 36 riders at a time. Sellner boasted that the 936 could earn operators $162 an hour. Then there was the Model 728 Tilt-A-Whirl, with seven cars, all painted bright red, capable of carrying 28 riders at a time, and worth $126 an hour.

18:23

All of Sellner's Tilt-A-Whirl cars were beauties, built of oak and pine with linoleum floors, cushioned seats, brightly colored canvas canopies, and lap bars for safety. When you bought a Tilt-A-Whirl ride, it came with everything an operator needed to be in business. A collapsible ticket booth, complete with a window and cash drawer, and a huge Tilt-A-Whirl entrance sign illuminated by 28 electric bulbs.

18:54

Herbert Sellner had found his calling, and his hometown of Faribault, Minnesota, was bursting with pride. The Sellner Manufacturing Company of Faribault shipped their patented amusement devices, including the Swooper, the Tilt-A-Whirl, water slides, and water wheels, all around the world. They are pioneers in this line of manufacture, and Minnesota tourists to Japan and Europe will find Sellner products made in Faribault.

19:23

It was only eight years later that carnivals and fairs would be calling the Tilt-A-Whirl a classic ride, or an old standby attraction. That's how quickly Sellner's invention became a fixture in that world. Which is a pretty astonishing achievement. Amusement parks and carnivals and fairs like to chase novelty as much as their customers do.

19:46

The newest, the biggest, the fastest. That's how they sell tickets. The other thing they sell, though, is nostalgia. The Tilt-A-Whirl had that unique kind of magic about it. New and yet old-timey all at once. A familiar, sentimental thrill. This show is carrying for the first time a double loop-o-plane and a brand new ride sensation called the Ride-O.

20:14

To say nothing of our old standbys, the Merry-Go-Round, the Whip, and the Tilt-A-Whirl. The Ride-O is just a memory now. Though the double loop-o-plane concept lives on in the god-awful Salt-N-Pepper Shaker rides that feature an enormous pair of arms that swing cage cars in opposite directions, riders spinning upside down as they're flung in big vertical loops.

20:35

Less a carnival ride than an exercise in trusting your fellow human. Because what do you mean they hauled that thing in on a flatbed and assembled it in one sweltering afternoon in the parking lot of a closed-down K-Mart? Y'all so scared of seed oils, yet you're strapping yourself into this thing like what could go wrong?

20:53

And give me a fried butter on a stick while you're at it, okay? Anyway, the point is, the Tilt-A-Whirl continued to spin in its cheerful orbit while shiny competitors blazed up to dominate the midway and then disappeared into memory. It wasn't all happy news, of course. In 1936, the Tilt-A-Whirl made headlines for another reason.

21:17

Eighteen-year-old Clarence Mallon sustained a severe fracture of his skull and painful lacerations about the face and head, and is confined to a local hospital. The attending physician stated that his condition is very critical. Clarence Mallon was thrown from a Tilt-A-Whirl operated by Zimdar's Greater Shows Carnival.

21:36

The Tilt-A-Whirl cars slow up a number of times during the ride. When the seat which Clarence was occupying slowed up, he evidently thought the ride was over and stood up, according to spectators preparing to get on the platform. As the device was again put into action, the seat Clarence was in gave a jerk. He was thrown clear of it, his head striking a steel or iron pole on the side of the riding device platform.

22:03

It was a terrible accident. The blow to his head knocked Clarence unconscious, and his body fell backward. He landed on the track of the whirling cars, and he was struck at least twice before the ride operator managed to get it stopped. It was human error, an honest mistake, and not a mechanical failure. But it was a reminder that with thrills came risks, even on an old standby ride like the Tilt-A-Whirl.

22:34

Herbert Sellner looked like a man with a long, bright future. He succeeded in bringing his invention to market. He watched it become a phenomenon. He expanded his family business beyond Faribault, Minnesota, into one that would be known worldwide. What had once lived only in his imagination would go on to become a fixture of the American cultural landscape.

22:56

He built a thing that would create core memories for millions and millions and millions of people, and he died of leukemia just three years after the first ticket-buying riders boarded that first Tilt-A-Whirl. Herbert Sellner was just 43 years old. The business in Faribault would continue with Herb's brother, Martin, taking over as general manager, along with Herb's two sons, Walter and Arthur.

23:26

Staggering a loss as the death of the founder was, the Tilt-A-Whirl seemed like an unstoppable success. The ride's popularity exploded in the 1930s. By the end of that decade, there were more than 150 Tilt-A-Whirls spinning and rocking all over the United States. And then came World War II. In March 1941, the U.S. government restricted the use of aluminum.

23:51

Five months later, in August 1941, that restriction expanded to include steel. When the United States entered the war on December 8, 1941, industry in the country swiftly shifted to war production. Sellner Manufacturing in Faribault made that shift, too, trading carnival rides for government contracts to produce toolkits and munitions for the Navy.

24:19

The ultimate outcome of the war, and its duration, depends upon our ability to shift from peacetime production to wartime production, speedily and completely. The founders of our country had the foresight to recognize this fact when they wrote the preamble to the Constitution in Independence Hall. To promote the general welfare is the goal of America at peace.

24:43

To provide for the common defense immediately becomes our united objective in time of war. There was no small achievement for Sellner Manufacturing to survive the war years. More than a quarter million small businesses failed. There was much talk back in 1944 about whether or not the whole idea of American free enterprise could survive World War II.

25:09

So for a little family business in Faribault, Minnesota, to successfully make the leap from building carnival rides to helping equip the United States Navy, it was impressive. But as big a shock to the system as moving to wartime production was, the return to peacetime production was every bit as challenging. For the Sellners, that transition was helped along by the fact that the post-World War II years in America were an absolute, unprecedented, wild jackpot of prosperity and growth.

25:46

It was a time that saw the birth of the suburbs, of car culture. Televisions began appearing in middle-class homes, and there was one more new invention, the biggest game changer of all, the American teenager. Now kids were in schools instead of the workplace. That wasn't a given before the 1940s. Kids who suddenly had free time and money to spend on leisure and pleasure.

26:13

You know what teenagers like? They like amusement parks and fairs and carnivals and boardwalks, places with lights and music, popcorn and ice cream and cotton candy, places high on entertainment and low on adult supervision. Those teenagers wanted rides, things like the old classic Ferris wheel where a couple could hold hands and maybe sneak a kiss, and rides that made a person dizzy with motion and speed, like the whip and the tilt-a-whirl, which all added up to Sellner manufacturing keeping the lights on and the town of Faribault, Minnesota, hanging on to its legacy of bringing old-fashioned fairground fun to the entire world.

27:00

And as it happened, that gift for invention didn't die with Herbert Sellner. His grandson, Bruce, who was born in August 1951, inherited his grandfather's talent and By the time Bruce was old enough to join the family business, Martin was long retired. Bruce's father, Herbert's son, Arthur, had taken over the company, and you'll remember Arthur the baby that inspired the tilt-a-whirl in the first place?

27:30

Well, what no one could have known or even predicted was that Bruce had this notebook full of ideas and doodles, rides he'd dreamed up that would prove even more popular and lucrative than the tilt-a-whirl. In 1987, Sellner launched a ride called Spin the Apple. The concept is almost ridiculously simple, and chances are so great that you've experienced it for yourself at some point.

27:58

Picture a car shaped like an oversized red apple. Riders climbed inside, and the apple cars moved on a circular track. Nothing too thrilling about that, right? Unless you add an enormous steering wheel. A turntable, actually, right in the center of the car. Riders could control the spin of their apple all by themselves.

28:20

The first ride of its kind, it was as simple as a merry-go-round, but with an added thrill that was 100% under the control of the rider, which made it appealing to every age group. That ride spawned multiple versions. The berry-go-round, which swapped out the apple-shaped car for a giant strawberry. Then there was the barrel of fun.

28:45

You see where this is going, right? And the bear affair. Bruce Sellner's original idea turned out to be almost endlessly adaptable and so family friendly that operators couldn't get their hands on this ride fast enough. In 1977, Bruce Sellner became president of the company. He was just 26 years old, half the age of the tilt-a-whirl invented by his grandpa, which was now a staple at almost all amusement parks.

29:16

Of the 850 tilt-a-whirls manufactured in Farivault, Bruce estimated that at that point, 600 were still active. People want a little thrill without the fear of being injured. It's been proven they can do that on the tilt. There's just enough thrill involved. It doesn't go up and down. It doesn't have loud music, which offends some people.

29:42

In 90 seconds or three minutes, you can get enough spins. Anything over three minutes and you're going to have some sick people. Bruce filed patent after patent for his inventions. There was the scorable shooting gallery amusement ride with simulated laser weapons at multiple stations. Translation, laser tag, but make it seated in a spaceship that rotates, rises, falls, and tilts while riders fire their lasers at targets hanging overhead.

30:15

He filed a patent for that laser weapon. A simulated laser weapon using a halogen bulb, parabolic reflecting mirror, bulb cap, rotating aperture, air jet, barrel, and shroud to produce a pulsed envelope of substantially parallel non-coherent light rays simulating the discharge from a high energy laser weapon being fired by and in the presence of a participant.

30:41

That patent filing makes a point of noting that the weapon in question was intended strictly as an amusement. Like his grandfather before him, Bruce's imagination was a playground, but that wasn't the only way the younger man resembled the elder. Bruce, like Herbert, wouldn't live to see old age. Bruce Sellner had a medical condition called sarcoidosis, an inflammatory disease that attacks healthy cells and vital organs.

31:10

In Sellner's case, it attacked his lungs. He fought poor health for more than a decade. It became clear he'd eventually need a lung transplant. Lung transplants were rare in the 1990s and extremely risky. A person had only a 50% chance of surviving the procedure. Today, that immediate survival rate has jumped to 90% or more.

31:32

But it's still a risky operation, with long-term post-transplant survival rates diminishing dramatically over time. Bruce Sellner was placed on the transplant list. You won't be even a little bit surprised to learn that his insurance company fought that with everything it had and won. Essentially, since Bruce Sellner died in September 1995, waiting for a donor lung to become available, he was just 44 years old.

32:00

He lived one year longer than the grandfather in whose footsteps he'd followed. Bruce had steered Sellner manufacturing through a rough economic recession in the 1980s. He had the vision to see where the future of the amusement park was headed. Interactive technology. If you've been to Super Nintendo World or to Harry Potter and the Battle at the Ministry at Universal's Epic Universe in Orlando, then you've been to the future that Bruce Sellner imagined.

32:30

But he didn't live to see. Tovah Sellner, Bruce's widow, took the helm, joined three years later by the couple's daughter Erin, four generations leading one family business. A business built on the enduring sentimental charm of a theme park ride that began with a wooden chair perched atop a kitchen table in a small town in Minnesota.

32:56

It looked for a few years anyway, like Sellner manufacturing would hang on. The company was still innovating in 2004, releasing the Generation 5 Tilt-A-Whirl with cars made of fiberglass and an open roof design. The death of their founder, the Great Depression, World War II, the Summer of Love, the 80s, the 90s, and Y2K, Sellner manufacturing had survived it all.

33:23

But the rough economic seas of the early 2000s would be the company's undoing. After missing payments on a loan issued by the Economic Development Authority of Faribault, Sellner manufacturing was sold in 2011. The new owner, an outfit out of Plainview, Texas, called Larson International, made its bones in the late 1960s with high clearance tractors.

33:48

A few years later, their founder, Walter Larson, met a starry-eyed inventor named Walter House. And House had an idea for an amusement park ride. They called it Super Loops. It was a 20-rider train of roller coaster cars that shuttled back and forth inside a 50-foot steel ring track. The peak thrill of the ride was the moment the train suspended riders upside down at the top of that steel loop.

34:17

The only people more excited by it than the riders were the ride operators. Because it was an ingenious design, folding to fit into a single flatbed trailer, and easily assembled in a matter of two or three hours by just two workers. In the same way that the Tilt-A-Whirl put Sellner on the map as a major manufacturer of amusement rides, the Super Loops had the same impact for Larson.

34:43

The company went on to produce two generations of Super Loop rides, the Ring of Fire in the late 1980s, and in 1998, the Fireball. That ride featured the roofless cart and over-the-shoulder restraints that are pretty much the norm now for coaster-type thrill rides. With Super Loops spinning Larson pretty much right out of the tractor business, the company continued producing and selling the Sellner rides, including the granddaddy of them all, the Tilt-A-Whirl, which might have eased the pain a little for the Sellner descendants, whose own family legacy is woven into the story of the American Midway.

35:25

And now to the main event and why we're here today. One more slice of American history right here in downtown Faribault. Another one of our iconic businesses that started here by the Sellner family, Sellner manufacturing, brings us the Tilt-A-Whirl, world-known and world-famous, starting here in Faribault. Even though this business has changed here in Faribault, we should be very so proud, or so very proud, of our history and what the Sellner family started here in Faribault.

35:54

Faribault, Minnesota, June 18, 2015. A pair of local business owners, Tammy Schluter and Peggy Kellen, didn't want Faribault to forget that this was the place where the Tilt-A-Whirl was born, where the ride was manufactured and shipped all over the world for more than 80 years. Schluter reached out to the producers of a TV show called American Restoration, hosted by a guy named Rick Dale, and carried on the History Channel.

36:25

The show followed Rick and his team as they restored vintage Americana to its original glory. Everything from old gas station pumps to antique toys. When the show's producers said they were in, Schluter and Kellen located one of Sellner's original Tilt-A-Whirl cars in an auto salvage yard. After the car's owner agreed to donate it, the pair raised more than $8,000 to pay for the restoration.

37:32

Before the 1940s, carnivals were pretty much burlesque and freak shows. But in the 1950s, rides like this actually made carnivals a bit more family-friendly. To restore something from that time period would be pretty awesome. to have it in our downtown. It's going to become a tourist attraction, if you will. People will sit in it, have a coffee.

37:58

We kind of envision a little table here. For a second there, I thought you were going to want me to build the rest of the ride. This is just one car from the ride? Yeah. This is actually a custom job that they did for a specific carnival. When we have it restored, we would like it to be put back. So you want it stock, like it came out of the factory?

38:16

Yeah. That fully restored Tilt-A-Whirl cart lives now in downtown Faribault. That June afternoon, when the townspeople gathered for the big unveiling, complete with the stars of American restoration, well, that was a day to put a lump in your throat. Blue sky, a drifting of fat, fluffy white clouds, the streets lined with people, t-shirts, lemonade, small American flags on wooden sticks gripped in chubby little hands, a community pausing to celebrate its own past, to remind itself that this was a special place, a place you could be proud to call your hometown.

39:01

And it was a thank you to a family whose work had brought delight to generations, not just here, but all over the world. It will say Tilt-A-Whirl, Sellner Manufacturing Company, 1926 to 2010, commemorating over 80 years of Herb Sellner's ingenuity and creativity, and the members of the Sellner family, its employees, and talented local artisans.

39:27

This individual car was refurbished by the History Channel series, American Restoration, combining several decades of design and theme to represent the ever-changing amusement desires of the thrill-seeking public. You can order a brand new Tilt-A-Whirl today. The price has jumped a bit. You'd need hundreds of thousands of dollars now.

39:53

But you can also catch a ride on the oldest Tilt-A-Whirl that's still tilting and whirling. It's a 1927 model, and it's owned by Tom Evans United Shows, a carnival company in Missouri that operates in the Midwest. Here we go. We gotta tilt this way. Next time on True Weird Stuff, she looked like, you know, a friendly apple-cheeked matron, and people felt sorry for her. She was a widow, you know, she'd been through some stuff.

40:41

But her nickname was Hell's Belle, because Belle Gunness wasn't just some apple-cheeked matronly widow. She's one of the worst American serial killers in history, and she is just the sweetest pie about it. Deadly Belle on the next True Weird Stuff. Special thanks to our voice talents on this episode, Erin Cox, Kary "Doc" Bowser, and Don Morgan.

41:07

Sherry, I can close my eyes, and in my mind's eye, stand on the noisy boardwalk with all those smells of the boardwalk, the popcorn, the cotton candy, and all of that, and stand there outside Gillian's Fun Deck, and see the Tilt-A-Whirl, and be disappointed by my mother telling me that's a big kid ride. I can't go on it. There are certain things that, I don't know, they have such emotional resonance for me, and a story like this one is one of those things.

41:49

To me, this story is grand in the tradition of Shakespeare and Greek tragedy. Do you know what I mean? This family. It has all the elements. It really does. Yeah. This family and these genius inventors. First of all, we want to talk about absolute salt of the earth. It gets no better than the townspeople of Faribault, Minnesota, and the Sellner family, just the best people, right? Good, hardworking people. To have a couple of generations of such powerhouse, visionary inventors who managed to get their ideas across the finish line into the world, who both died so young. It's awful.

42:36

I think that's one of the really sad things about this. I love the fact that you had the grandson and the grandfather that both had that little quirk in their mind that they were inventors, but a very specific kind of inventor where you're trying to come up with these ideas for these rides. I always wondered about the imagination that comes up with those kinds of things. It's a fascinating inside look. Well, the way that Herbert Sellner was playing with his little boy, Arthur, like parents do, and that he had this lightbulb moment where he's like, wait a minute. What if I could make a giant version of shaking this chair on the kitchen table? When you think about it, the total world, American politicians love to talk about the kitchen table, right? Oh, we're sitting at the kitchen table. We're getting to know each other across the kitchen table. One of the world's great amusement inventions is a kitchen table invention in a small town in Minnesota in the heartland. To me, the perfection of that moment, right?

43:45

But when we go full circle to the end of the story, this is one of those rare true stories that lines up. You could turn this into a novel with very little effort because the poetic ending, the family, these inventors, these tragic early deaths, but they kept on keeping on. Generation after generation of Sellners somehow managed to keep the magic going in Faribault, Minnesota until they just freaking couldn't anymore. Somebody swooped in and bought them.

44:14

Who was that? Well, it's another family business out of Texas that started out making tractors and got into the amusement park ride. If you put that into a novel, people will go, it's nice, but the world doesn't really work like that, except it did in this case. The other thing that jumped out at me that I didn't know and learned, I love this podcast because I learned so much working on it, but the whole idea of the modern American amusement park was invented by trained companies that wanted to give people a reason to ride the rails.

44:47

I mean, that's kind of astonishing, isn't it? When you think about that now. If you're a trained guy like Tony, our exec producer, Tony is a trained guy. If you're a trained person, I want to say something to you that will be like honey poured over your heart that has been mocked for being a nerd for your whole life. Listen to me. I say this unto you, trained people. The story of America is inextricably woven in with the story of the railroad.

45:13

You can't separate one from the other. Good and bad, positive and negative, the railroad is so integral to who we are and how we understand ourselves. The White Bear Railroad that tried to invent Wildwood Amusement Park, they laid the tracks and they had the trains and we got to get people on them. They built Wildwood. Now at the time, it was Japanese gardens and rowboats on lakes. It was not anyone's idea of a Six Flags, but at the time, for folks that worked all day in factories and whatnot, a train ride out to the country for a picnic, that was paradise. Then they went under. But the next owner of those set of tracks, Rapid City Transit, did the exact same thing except in a more contemporary way.

46:07

They were like, well damn, we bought this business. We bought White Bear's business. We've got the tracks. We have this piece of property out here in the back of the beyonds. What are we going to put on that piece of property to lure people onto the train? That was the birth of the modern amusement park. You would never have a million years guessed that that's how that came to be. I love it. Don't you just love that?

46:33

Yes. Do you know what else is kind of interesting? You know, Erin Sellner still lives in Fairbalt. She still lives there because I found her Facebook page. She's still living in that very community where all of this started with her great-grandfather. We should maybe send them, find a way to send her an episode of this because the story of the Tilt-A-Whirl and Fairbalt, Minnesota and the Sellner family, it's all the same story. I can't even imagine as a filthy little vagabond, I can't imagine what it would be like to have so many generations of my family woven into a place. Let's talk about how these rides were marketed based on how quickly you could pull them up and down and all that.

47:30

Sure. Because I thought that was interesting too. Okay. We'll go back into this next part in three, two, one. One of the things that I learned working on this one was so interesting. As a person with anxiety and a Capricorn, I've never, and I love the fair. I love the fair so much. I get on these rides feeling pretty sure that not every bolt made it into place.

48:02

I think that's part of the excitement. It's part of the thrill for me. One of the things that was fascinating for me was the way these rides were sold because that's a world that we're not part of, right? But it makes sense that you would sell these rides to fair operators and carnival operators, not based on thrills and fun, but based on efficiency. How many workers do we need to put it together and take it down?

48:29

How many riders can you move through it in an hour? That's how easy is it to put together? Because you're going to have people put it together who aren't necessarily ride technicians, which Sherry, I think about a story that you told about your ex-husband who was on one of those swing rides, right? Oh, my God. In defense of the ride, he couldn't have been more high. He was as high as a man could be. This is before I met him. He was in his second year of college. He came from a very, very small town. He's home for the summer. There's a fundraising carnival in the parking lot of the grocery store. Everybody in town is there because this town, literally, there's nothing to do in this town. It's so small. I've been, so I know there's nothing to do. Everyone in town is at the carnival. There's my ex, just big to the balls. They get on one of those swing rides, which are really fun. I like that. I always like that ride.

49:37

Yeah, they do have safety. There's a safety mechanism. I'm not sure what you call it. Lap bar chain. Lap bar. The ride operator at this particular fair took some things for granted. One of those things was, if you were a grown ass man, you probably buckled your own safety bar. They didn't check. They usually go at every ride and they yank on your lap bar, your harness, and they make sure that you're in. They didn't on this one. The ride, you know how those swings go.

50:10

First, they rise, rise, rise, and then they begin rotating and picking up speed. Everyone, the ride is spinning. His parents are down below having a corn dog or what have you. They look up and people are now pointing and shouting because a rider is beginning to slide out of the swing. Those two folks realized that that rider is their son, their only boy.

50:40

He's sliding, sliding. He comes completely free of the ride. Now, this is his description of it. Time must slow down when you're thrown from a carnival ride and you're high as he was. He said, it took forever. I could see everyone's faces. I could see my parents yelling, my goal from the ground. He said, I was sailing toward the dumpsters and I decided to tuck and roll. That's how much time slows down when you're in one of these moments, I guess. He curled himself into a little ball and he hit the ground and he rolled. When I tell you he came away from this without a scratch because these people have a guardian angel. It's probably still the talk of the town for some.

51:32

When the carnival comes back, people still bring that story up. I can't imagine. Just like with the situation with the Tilt-A-Whirl, this is rider error. This isn't the fault of the people that are running the ride because we do hear about it. It's unavoidable because you're dealing with things that can fail and you're dealing with human beings. There's going to be every once in a while, you're going to have accidents with this. Something's going to go wrong. I guess that is part of the thrill because there is a little percentage in your mind as you go up at the top of the roller coaster.

52:16

This could go off the tracks. There is never a time and I love a roller coaster. One of my favorite roller coasters is actually at Dollywood. It's the Double Eagle. You're kind of suspended and so you're dangling and you're flying like a bird and then you're upside down and stuff. It's so crazy fun. There is not a time as that ride is ticking where I think, well, I've had a good life.

52:47

I've gotten a lot of my dreams have come true and I've gotten to be a mom and I guess if this is it, this is it. I wish that I had the pictures that my parents when they died, they had everything on slides and I think my sister threw them out. I wish I had them because I know there were pictures of my brother, my sister and I on the scrambler. Do you remember what the scrambler was?

53:11

Oh yeah, we talked about it in this episode. Scrambler is a great ride. So the scrambler, if one person sat on one side of it, the other two could push against them. So my brother and sister said, you sit here and I'd go, okay. And then as the ride would go and the shift would happen, they'd both lean into me as we were going around and I went, Hey, what happened here?

53:41

Oh, so fun. The scrambler, the Himalaya, the Gravitron. I love the Tilt-A-Whirl. I love these rides. I love these old school fairground rides. And I want to shout out what a genius Bruce Sellner was, the second of the Sellner inventors with Berry Go Round. Because I know that if you're sitting here listening to this, I think there's a 90% chance you've been on the Apple or Berry ride. It's the same ride over and over again. The cars are just different.

54:14

Here's the appeal of it. The appeal of it for you as a parent is it's a ride you can take your kids on. But your children, your small children, they see that giant strawberry or that giant apple and they want to get inside that thing. They want to get inside that so bad they don't care what happens once they're in it. I want to go on the giant strawberry. The number of times that I've been on these Berry Go Round rides over the course of my life, just as a fair goer, as a mom, as an aunt. I mean, it's crazy. Because Bruce Sellner understood that there was a certain magic to just sitting inside a giant strawberry before anything else happened. He was brilliant.

54:58

He was brilliant. But I think my favorite was the bumper cars. I don't know who invented the bumper cars. But the floor of it, I think at one time they had like graphite or something on the floor. So it was dark and slippery. And I was a rambunctious child. And I would get in the car and when I got off, I was all excited and I would always slip and fall and end up on the shorts that were the shorts that were bought specifically for this family vacation with a great big graphite stain on it from having fallen going that. So there was always this moment whenever I got involved with doing that particular ride. Well, Max, you and I have very special memories that are unique to kids who had the chance to go to the amusement piers at the Jersey Shore.

55:57

That is a very, every, like the fair, if you've never been to a big state fair, put that on your bucket list because it is an experience to have. You should go, yes. And you should go to a strip mall carnival that's raising money for a local Catholic school. You should definitely do that. Do not miss your chance to go to one of America's older amusement parks like Cedar Point. And if you, by God, are anywhere near the New Jersey Shore, get you to an amusement pier. Atlantic City, Wildwood, Ocean City, pick one.

56:30

We always, Wildwood, Ocean City was fine. That's where we'd stay. But Wildwood always had the best rides. Yeah, that Wildwood is the daddy. Yeah. Now, Wildwood is Sodom and Gomorrah. Because Ocean City, the island of Ocean City, New Jersey was settled, I think, by the Methodists. And so it is a dry island. You can have alcohol. You just can't purchase alcohol.

56:55

It's not easy to get. You best pack it in. Everything is a bit more sedate there. But when you go to Wildwood, it's like well-named. That's all I can say. My Aunt Margie, God rest her soul, she was married to my Uncle Whitey because yes, those are the people I come from. My Aunt Margie, who was about four feet tall and made entirely of nicotine and auburn hair dye. My Aunt Margie once said, because we were like, I was like a teenager and I had a chance to go to Wildwood with some friends and I wanted to go.

57:31

And I'm like, come on, please, please, please, girl, let me go, please, please. And she's like, where are you going to stay? We're staying at Danny's Aunt's house, which sounded like bullshit because you know it was. My Aunt Margie takes her cigarette out of her mouth and points at my grandmother with her lit cigarette and says, Reanie, Wildwood is where the devil goes when he wants a vacation.

57:55

Which I thought was harsh. There was always a heightened awareness of where you were and everything else. And I think that always came from my parents. My parents were always, all right, tonight's the night where we're going to go to Wildwood. All right, now stay close, kids. Like there were all these terrible things that could happen in Wildwood. And in fairness, many of these terrible things did and do happen because it's just, yeah, it's just that kind of place. Most of them not on the Tilt-A-Whirl.

58:31

Almost none of them on the Tilt-A-Whirl. But those amusement piers, that's a different amusement park ride. I want you to imagine that you're on the wild coast, the roller coaster, sometimes it's called the wild mouse, where it's like individual cars rocketing around. Now it's nighttime and you can see the ocean over here and the strip of beach beneath you and the boardwalk and all the lights behind you and the salt air and the screams of the crowd and the music. And you're on the tip top of that wild mouse and there's the vastness of the Atlantic Ocean right in front of you. It's a different kind of a thrill. Yeah, they did. They would have those piers. I know in Atlantic City, rather than having it on the boardwalk and have it on the land, the pier would go directly into the ocean. In Atlantic City, they had something called the diving bell. So you would go down, they would take you down into the depths of the ocean. First of all, you're not that far.

59:31

Second of all, it's the murky ocean. You're not seeing much of anything anyhow. I always thought that was a fairly disappointing. It was a great concept. It sounded good, but when the reality of it was, it was not all that exciting. It was a classic carnival gaffe. Like, I just know it's good. And then blah. But you know what I've been thinking, Max?

59:55

This is before our time, but they used to, at Atlantic City, they had a horse that would dive. Oh, on the steel pier? On the steel pier. Maybe you want to do a steel pier episode? You really should because the steel pier, that's another little piece of Americana. You would go to the steel pier and for one price, you would get in and get everything.

1:00:21

It's kind of like the way Disney World is now. And they would have the diving horse, they would have the cliff divers, they would have a show, they had rides. Let's do a steel pier episode. Max and I have an old friend in this business who, when he was a little boy, was like a child prodigy accordion player at the steel pier.

1:00:49

All right, I just made myself a note. Yeah, it's just the rides. The thing that the Sellners understood, and they were, you know, you have to, in the beginning, this was a furniture company. This was not, these were not show business people or carnies or anything. These were woodworkers. But the thing that Herbert understood and that his grandson Bruce understood was that part of the spectacle, it wasn't just that the ride itself was some big thrilling thing.

1:01:26

The spectacle consisted of all the pieces. What did the car look like when you climbed into it? You know, was it cherry red with racing stripes and shiny, you know, unlike anything else in your life at that time? The emphasis in the early days of the Tilt-A-Whirl where they were like, this comes with electric lights. Does that not give you a pang in your heart to think of what a different time that was? Yes. Like, folks, you're going to see, hold on to something, electric light. I love the idea that it was originally was the use of gasoline powered.

1:02:05

Gasoline. Yeah. Gasoline powered. That's crazy. And they were, they had one of those things, like an old school, what are those cords that pull a lawnmower, that yank your lawnmower into life, like pull the cord and get the jenny's fired up. But, you know, it's kind of genius. If you're having to set up in the middle of a field somewhere for like a county fair, yeah, you know, where the electrical outlets. So it is that that's really genius.

1:02:31

And the thing that I love that I can't even tell you why that. Well, I know what got me thinking about it. I was I was on a drive home and had my Apple Music shuffling and Fourth of July Sandy from Springsteen's Green from Asbury Park came on. And it's such a summertime song. I mean, that song was nostalgic the day he wrote it. Like it just captures that Jersey Shore experience.

1:03:03

If you've ever been there and the idea, the image of his life that was the Tilt-A-Whirl and his shirt got caught and he couldn't get off. Oh, my God. So I'm listening to that lyric and it's, it's dusky twilight and I like back roads. So I was taking a back road instead of the interstate. And I was listening to that lyric and I was filled with this longing for something that I had never had. You know, that feeling of homesickness that sometimes overtakes you as a grown up where you're like, I want to go back to that moment.

1:03:42

But that was never my moment. Like I never that wasn't. It was this such a, I mean, art, that's what art does to you, right? So it was such a moment. And for the rest of the drive, all I could think about was the Tilt-A-Whirl. And I was like, where'd the Tilt-A-Whirl come from? Like somebody must have invented it, right? That's amazing.

1:04:02

So, so I got home and I go on to the webs and I was like, who invented the Tilt-A-Whirl? And pops up Herbert Sellner, and I'm reading this and I'm like, okay, no, you got to be kidding me. This is one of the great American stories. Why is no one telling this family's story in a bigger way? Like, I know we're busy and there are sexier attractions and amusements. This is a great American story. It is a great American story. It speaks to a lot of things, the entrepreneurial spirit, ingenuity, invention, making something that had never been there before into something that everybody loves and enjoys. I mean, it's just great.

1:04:48

And with every, it's hard to live with me. And I know that, like, I cook and, you know, I look okay naked, right? But other than that, it's really hard to live with me. Because when I'm in one of my micro fixations, and that's all this podcast is, is one micro fixation after the next for me. When I'm in one of those, it's all I can think about. It's like, I'm out of my mind. Like, I'm just living in an obsessive state. And I would, Kevin would walk, my husband would walk into a room and I'd be like, Kevin, you're not going to believe what happened to the Sellners in the 2000s. They had to sell their, and he's like, what are we talking about? Like, it's, it's so poetic. I feel like maybe I'm making it up.

1:05:33

Look at this. You see that, right? I'm not making this up, right? The family that bought their business also used to make something else and then got into, do you see how perfect it is? And he was like, oh, I thought you guys were on a break. This is why I'm glad I have you because I'm your person to come to with this. I really am.

1:05:54

I just like, I don't know what it's like to have a brain where you're not like hooked into these things all the time. Like what do regular people think about? It must be peaceful. I think it's peaceful to be normal. I think it's, it's not just a matter of being normal. I think that a lot of people are not curious. They're just, they're just not because I hit somebody I dated one time and we went to a movie and I was on the internet after the movie. She said, you're looking up things about that movie, aren't you? I go, yeah. She goes, you're looking up where it was shot. And I go, yeah, because I went to the movie, really enjoyed it. And I looked at all the things in my, I want to know more about this.

1:06:36

And so I'm online trying to figure out some of that sort of stuff. So I think that it's about being curious and thank God for the internet that we can now have access to this. Prior to that, I would go to the library. Yeah. I would follow people around asking questions. Like when we, when we worked early in our radio career, we worked in this big building that had a couple of radio stations and a TV station and a sports production company.

1:07:04

And so there were lots and lots of people who knew lots and lots of things, different ages, different life experiences. We had engineers that had been around when the light bulb was invented, like these ancient TV engineers. And so when I would have a, when I'd be hooked into one of my little obsessions, I'd go home, one of these guys down and I'd be like, Cliff. Yeah. We had guys there. Can you explain a vacuum from the early days of TV? Yeah. Yeah. Cliff, can you explain what you mean when you call it a vacuum tube? And this man, these men would blink at me like, why, why are you here? Why? And, but they were engineers and nobody ever asked them anything except if they can fix a broken thing. They were always, they were like, you really want to know?

1:07:49

Okay. Sit down. So the internet did allow me to stop harassing old broadcast engineers a bit, but yeah, there's just that curiosity of this thing that exists that everybody knows about that Bruce Springsteen wrote a song about that's in movies and books and our memories. And we don't know where it came from. And it's not just a story. It's a fascinating story.

1:08:14

It's so, sometimes I get one of the things that frustrates me about the current moment that we're living in as a nation and a world is it's all about being momentarily outraged and this grievance of the moment. There's no reflection or perspective. We're just like, I'm pissed off right now. Okay. Oh, I'm pissed off right now. Again. Do you know that feeling of like, there's no context for anything and there's no appreciation for anything other than, you know, the instant gratification of engagement, which is, I guess, I mean, I can't imagine being a rage bait farmer, but yeah. There's a lot of select group paranoia.

1:09:01

Yeah. And I'm over here like, okay, first of all, first of all, stop. You're saying crazy things. Take two steps back and swivel your head in a circle. There's so much cool, fascinating stuff here. And maybe we could live our lives instead of racing through them. But we are part of an economic system that, especially in this particular moment, it takes every bit of your time and energy just to scrape together the tools for survival.

1:09:41

Yeah. And so, there's not a lot of time or energy left over for beauty and poetry and art and to just sit around in the grass, looking up at the stars and thinking about where the Tilt-A-Whirl come from. That's been taken away from us and replaced with momentary, instantaneous distractions. And I'm as addicted to all of it as anybody. So, it's no criticism.

1:10:08

But it's a bummer. It's a bummer that we're, because I feel like we're losing we're losing some reverence for our own history. And you can be a harsh critic of your own history. And at the same time, be reverent where that is called for. Those two things can mutually coexist. We don't have to say, everything was awesome forever and ever. Amen. Anymore than we have to say, everything is, was and always will be terrible. But it's that finding that balance that's hard. And it's just the internet just makes it impossible because we don't really conversate. We accuse and score points off each other. But I love when you find something that is uniquely American, like the Tilt-A-Whirl.

1:11:04

When I look back on these sorts of episodes, we do them. We do a fair number of them, I guess, in between the murder and mayhem. The guy that made his living, Bill White, burying himself alive. Oh, yeah, that's one of my favorites. The Tilt-A-Whirl. These kinds of stories, they show you a glimpse of the American character, of what it means to come to this melting pot of a giant country where it's so freaking huge, we can't even begin to get our hands around how big this country is.

1:11:41

And all the different ways there are to be in a country this big and this diverse. Here's a guy who made his living as a country music singer who buried himself alive at drive-in movie theaters as an entertainment stunt. Here's a guy who took the family woodworking business and became one of the preeminent amusement park ride inventors in the world.

1:12:05

These are two very different people with two very different ambitions and agendas. But the one thing they have in common is, it can only happen here. Yeah, it's true. And that's my kind of patriotism, folks. That is where I am like, some nights I'll be outside with the dog and I'll look up at the sky and I'll think, you know, there's a lot to be said for sitting on your front steps and chatting with the neighbors as they walk by. That's a reality worth having, too.

1:12:40

You know? It is important. Like, I struggle to even articulate the America that lives inside of me. But the America that lives inside of me, and I'm lucky that my early life was chaotic because that chaos brought me many, many opportunities to have experiences that would end up shaping me. You know, I'm in the wilderness at the Philadelphia Naval Yard. I'm being ricocheted all around all these places. I'm being exposed to these different sensibilities and the ways that different people lived behind their closed front doors.

1:13:22

And that America, for me, is the America of the Sellner family at the kitchen table, realizing that what's making the baby laugh could maybe bring joy to millions of people somehow. And Bill White figuring out how to make a living underground at the drive-in movie theater. Burying himself as a stunt time after time. Yeah. Like, you know, that's the America that lives inside me.

1:13:51

And that's the America that I struggle to, like, articulate to people. We have work to do. We've always had work to do. You know? That's why it says in the founding documents, toward a more perfect union. We've always had that work to do. But in a country that opens the door and invites and welcomes this kind of free thinking, that's how you get the world in the living corpse. That's how that happens. It doesn't happen any other way.

1:14:24

And I'm sad. I grieve. I grieve the way we seem to have hopefully maybe temporarily lost that in this moment. I don't know. What do you think? I'm not. So it's hard for me. No one should face the reality online because I'm insane. I'm more optimistic about that. I mean, I feel optimistic that that will return more and that we will see more of that. Because I that's just because I'm optimistic.

1:14:56

I was trying to think because I was going to ask you, like, because I love doing stories like this Tilt-A-Whirl. I love these little dives. The previous story with the father-son serial killers. God, the only house of horrors, y'all. And next week, we're going to meet Bell Gunness, America's first lady serial killer. That would not be the fair sex in that particular case.

1:15:25

But anyway, I try to think of like, can I pull up one memory or one image that sort of encapsulates that way that I feel about that other America that it's just on the other side of this boiling hot, insane rage we're all living? So this was my older brother, not me. I was too little and I wasn't allowed to be a part of this. But it was right before we moved to Wyoming.

1:15:51

And my brother had a pack of friends in the neighborhood. It was so cool. They all were the bicycles with banana seats. Can you picture it? And it was probably once a week in the summertime. I don't know. I was little. But I was outside in the front yard. I had to stay in the front yard. I could not leave the front yard. But my older brother was allowed to play with his friends in the street. And they were all on their bicycles. And the mosquito truck came through.

1:16:24

So the mosquito truck was blowing a thick white fog of pesticides, chemicals. And my brother and his friends, the truck, the truck, and they got on their bicycles. And I remember standing there in the front yard and watching the truck go by spewing this thick white cloud of smoke or vapor or whatever it was. And my brother and his friends, and they were probably nine or maybe, yeah, nine, maybe 10 at that age.

1:17:03

This crowd of little boys on bicycles chasing the smoke and shouting and laughing. And of that memory, the color of the night sky, the little boys on their bikes, the truck, the smoke. That is my American childhood. Because it was this combination of reckless idiocy and complete innocence. They didn't know. And they were on the street on their bikes.

1:17:47

Today, I feel like the parents who live in my neighborhood would never allow that. And not just because it's a toxic cloud of insecticide. It was just a different world. I mean, I could close my eyes and see it like I'm still there. It's one of my early core memories. So I don't know if you have one like that where you, it's sort of unhinged, but you go, oh yeah, ain't that to quote John Mellencamp. I don't have one that comes to mind, but I do remember when we went to the South Jersey Shore when they would spray the trucks because the chore was get all the windows closed because they'd be driving the mosquitoes inside. We had to get the windows, the doors, they'd come through the screen. I remember doing all of that. Isn't it funny that they were driving the mosquitoes inside, but let's send the kids out to huff that. And I can show you the thing about it was I love the smell of that guy. I can still, I can still smell that. And I love the smell of that. Well, listen for me, soft serve vanilla ice cream with rainbow Jimmy's must be eaten in the exhaust of the ice cream truck in order to have its maximum flavor.

1:19:08

Oh, yeah. You know, we'll wrap up with, for people, because we've been talking about the Jersey Shore, we definitely have to do a Steel Pier episode. To have spent any time at the Jersey Shore is to have the sweetest nostalgia for even the most tawdry aspects of that memory. One of my favorite Jersey Shore moments. So I was in probably, I don't know, high school, as a teenager, and some of my friends had driver's licenses. And there was a big story, big local news story, all over the Philadelphia TV news, in all the newspapers. Apparently, a medical barge out of New York City carrying medical waste had had some sort of an accident in a storm. And the headline, and it was, I mean, it led the five o'clock action news.

1:20:02

A human uterus has washed up on the beach in Atlantic City. The way that everyone I know, got in their cars and went to go look for this show really should be brought to you by the New Jersey State Visitors. We do so much. You know what, and we say loving things about New Jersey. And let me just salute the people of the Delaware Valley area for wanting to learn a little bit about science and anatomy there on the Atlantic City. And there's your curiosity to bring that.

1:20:42

There we go. Okay. All right. So next time on True Weird Stuff, we're going to tell the story of Belle Gunness, who is widely considered to be America's first female serial killer. But you know, we always have to remember when we're talking about serial killers, we're only talking about the ones that have gotten caught. Because the FBI and the DOJ, criminal forensic experts will tell you that most don't. And sometimes, and we saw this in the Gilgo Beach case, and in some activity, investigative activity happening in Arizona now, sometimes it takes a while for police to connect bodies and link them to a single perpetrator. Right, Max?

1:21:37

Right. It's... Because serial killers, they choose the victims. Randomly, they don't have usually when you have people that are murdered and whatnot, these are people they know, people that are doing it for a purpose, revenge. When you have people just killing for the purpose of killing randomly, it's very difficult to track that.

1:21:55

So difficult. And they target, because they're hunters, they're predators, serial killers are apex predators, above all. Because that is who and what they are, they target victims that are less likely to be missed. People on the margins, homeless people, sex workers, runaways, you know, all the standard vulnerable people. And so you'll find that, you know, here a body, there a body, everywhere a body body. And it's only by luck or happenstance that something connects those cases, and police step back and go, we may have a serial killer operating here.

1:22:37

There's that concern. It's on the border towns in Arizona and Texas and New Mexico, right? Right. They're finding bodies and the bodies line up with the classic victims targeted by these predators. So when we say that Belle was America's first female serial killer, we have to say that we know of. Because most of them don't get caught. And that is the chilling part of walking around in this world is that we just don't know who we're standing next to at the grocery store or next to on the subway. I'm just going to stay home, Sherry.

1:23:14

I find that, Max, the more overworked we are, the safer we are. I think you're right. Yeah. People say to me, you sure work a lot. And I'm over here going, well, you're not finding my body at the truck stop. So here we go. You got it. If you want to catch me first, I got to leave the house. So that'll be next week on True Word Stuff. We're going to take a look at the story of Belle Gunness. We have a brand new website that we're super duper excited about. And we would love for you to check it out at True Weird Stuff dot com. We're going to be talking about this because we are thrilled, thrilled, thrilled, thrilled with our brand new True Weird Stuff digital home. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next time.

1:23:51

And if you listen to us on Apple podcast, hit the plus button in the top right corner. Now it helps an independent podcast like ours to get discovered. And we really appreciate it. If you subscribe, rate and review True Weird Stuff. Hit our website, True Weird Stuff dot com for show notes and photos and videos when we have it.

1:24:10

And bonus content. Everything True Weird is waiting for you at True Weird Stuff dot com. And follow True Weird Stuff on Instagram. True Weird Stuff is a Now! Media production. Our executive producer is Anthony Garcia. The show is written and hosted by me, Sheri Lynch, along with my deeply weird director, Max Sweeten. Our equally odd producer is Kary Bowser. Additional production by the mysterious Stephen Call. Our digital witch and social media cult leader is Heather Furr.

1:24:41

Original graphics by Kevin Nash. Original artworks by Olivia Axland. True weird original music composed and performed by Jack Griffin and Zane Nash. Copyright 2026. Now! Media. All rights reserved. All wrongs remembered.

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