I Do, I Do, I Do

Hey, true weirdos at the end of this episode, stick around if you want for a little bonus content and conversation. No one says I do planning to change that to I don't. Life has a way of punching you hard right in the face. And the next thing you know, detectives are kicking down your hotel room door. Baby gets kidnapped. And then it all gets a lot stranger.

Stuff It could happen at any moment. You might be standing in front of the small closet buttoning up a shirt. You might be in the bathroom, washing your hands or stepping into the tub. You might be tangled in the sheets awake or asleep, alone or maybe not. The sudden sharp knocking the splintering crack of a door being forced open. It's a raid. Police detectives swarm the room. A raid, a raid. The police aren't here looking for drugs or weapons. There's no warrant for your arrest. Technically, you've done nothing wrong. But the law doesn't take kindly to unmarried couples sharing a hotel room, much less a bed. You just got it. And if that feels like the most gross invasion of your privacy, the most offensive abuse of your basic rights, suck it up buttercup. This is the USA in 1940. And whether it's adultery, or fornication, it's a crime. Whoa, they're a crime. A crime. In fact, adultery is still a criminal offense in 17 states and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico. Don't get caught in Oklahoma, Michigan or Wisconsin, because it's a felony in those three states. It's a misdemeanor and 14 others. It's a crime that's rarely prosecuted today. That wasn't always true. Don't get the idea though that cops were going door to door, arresting people for the crime of hooking up. Laws like this fall under the category of vice. And vice laws, if we're honest, have always been selectively enforced. For example, there hasn't been a single adultery case prosecuted in the state of Illinois for over 50 years. But in 2010, a married woman in New York was charged with the crime of adultery for having sex on a picnic table in a public park. I mean, ew, plus the risk of linners. That case was resolved when the woman agreed to plead guilty to public lewdness, provided the adultery charge got kicked to the curb. It's trippy to imagine getting arrested for adultery. Because we think that our private lives should be exactly that. We think the government has no place in our bedrooms or our hotel rooms. And while we're busy believing that the government's busy trying to mind our most intimate personal business. The fact is, until about 1970, the laws in this country around divorce were so harsh and strict, that warring couples were forced to either stay together, abandon the legal marriage for a lifestyle of casual bigamy, which happened a lot more than you think, or travel to a place with more lenient legalities, a place like Reno, Nevada. This was such a common thing that capitalism even gave it a name, the migratory divorce trade. My dudes, the puritanical foundation this country was built on set us up for so much weird behavior, so much contradictory behavior, and hypocrisy by the truckloads. This is a story about love and marriage and divorce and money. Let's hop in the true weird time machine now and head to sunny Miami, Florida. It's March 1937. You're about to meet a stunning actress and her Wall

Street rich husband. There's going to be a hotel raid, an ugly divorce, a kidnapping, and a million dollar bubble bath. Her name was Money I. Lindley. Isn't that a fun name? Money I. She was born in Cleveland, Ohio on August 13, 1908. Her father was a very successful man. And Money I.'s early life was all wealth and privilege. But like so many beautiful girls of her time, and now, she dreamed of Hollywood. Money I wanted to be a movie star. Ever since I can remember, I have always wanted to be an actress. There were complications. I came of Quaker stock, and my father was opposed to the theater. To get me away from it, and my ambition, I have been sent away to schools, to girls camp, even Europe. But I always had to come back to it, because I knew that something inside me would burst if I did not. They called her Hollywood's poor little rich girl. She arrived in LA with a stylish wardrobe and an enviable list of social connections. If she'd hoped that combination would open doors and smooth her pathway to stardom, she very quickly learned that it didn't work quite that way in the movie business. You can't go to your friends and ask them to give you a part. Besides, most people think that a girl who really doesn't need the money is only looking for a thrill from being in pictures. Money I had to fight her way to an acting career. She managed to have some success and was cast in three motion pictures, and that ain't nothing. She played Monica Van Buren in 1932's Tangled Destinies.

Melissa and I were on the road together the year after you ditched her and the kids. She showed me your picture and told me the whole rotten story. Where is she now? In New York, working in a burlap show for $22.50 a week. Then came Listening In, where she played a telephone operator who accidentally connects the wife of a cheating husband to a call where he's arranging a double date with his mistress.

Oops, hilarity. She rounded out her film career playing the girlfriend of a good for nothing lazy rich man in 1933's Girl from Georgia, a movie that was banned from being shown in many theaters on the grounds that it offended public morality. Probably thanks to Money I's character losing her man to a girl named Waffles. Waffles knew a special trick or two when it came to motivating a shiftless man to get his act together. Money I craves stardom, but Destiny had other plans for the beauty from the Buckeye State. She had just wrapped up the lead role in a stage production called Between the Covers when a swaggering finance tycoon by the name of Wallace Groves stepped into her spotlight. Wally, as he was called, was brilliant and bold.

He took his four college degrees to Wall Street, where he spun a single idea into a million dollar investment fund. His rise was so meteoric that the Securities and Exchange Commission poked their heads in for a look. He was already the talk of New York, the man with the Midas touch, the man who'd raked in over $360,000 profit in a single day. That's over 8 million bucks in today's money. And that's the kind of success that attracts all sorts of attention. It was the classic whirlwind courtship, something right out of a movie Money I might have had a part in. The couple married and settled into one hell of an extravagant life in a penthouse on Park Avenue. Now, don't you go thinking that it was Wally's riches that seduced Money I. She had plenty of riches of her own. Her father was loaded and it set his daughter up with a fat trust fund worth millions. She didn't need a nickel from Wally and she gave up her Hollywood ambitions to be his bride. Wally had the Wall Street crowd worshiping at his feet and Money I was the toast of New York's theatrical and art scene. They were a power couple for sure and seemed happy too. And then happier still when their son Wallace Jr. was born. It was a real life fairy tale. And you know how those go. A price must always be paid for all that beauty and bliss. A dark price. Baby Wallace was just a few weeks old when Wally suggested to Money I that they take a vacation to Miami. The trip would do her good, he said.

Sunshine, fresh air, orange juice. No sooner had they arrived than Wally chartered a luxury yacht called the Louisa Jane for a cruise to the Bahamas. Eight guests joined the couple for the seven day sale. And yeah, damn. Say what you want about the rich, but these people clearly know how to enjoy themselves. So on the night the group returned to Miami, Money I found a telegram waiting for her. Her beloved father was seriously ill. He was dying in Philadelphia. She made plans to leave Miami to travel to his bedside the following evening.

She never imagined what this decision would cost. The next day, with her luggage packed, Money I was showering when she was startled by a loud pounding on the door of her hotel suite. Then, to her shock and terror, she heard the sound of doors cracking and splitting, soaking wet, naked and vulnerable. Money I cowered as a group of people smashed through the bathroom door yelling, We finally got you with the goods!

The press called it a raiding party. Money I recognized some of the faces in that mob crowding into the bathroom of that Miami hotel. Her brother-in-law and his wife, a woman who'd been their guest on the yacht, a well known New York City detective named William Ryan, the hotel's clerk, a bellboy, and most shocking, her own husband, Wally. As quickly as they came, the group left, laughing, slapping each other on the back, heading for the bar and drinks. Money I was left shivering and bewildered and furious. But she set her confusion and anger aside, leaving Miami as planned to travel to her dying father's bedside. When she returned to her penthouse on Park Avenue a week later, a fresh nightmare awaited. Divorce papers. Wally demanded the end of the marriage on the grounds of what had been discovered in that Miami hotel raid. Spoiler alert. What had been discovered was Money I shampooing her hair. Not that the truth mattered. Wally was a man and a rich, powerful one at that. His word against hers and the raiding party would back anything he claimed. But even worse, baby Wallace was gone. Money I feared the infant had been kidnapped and her fears were justified. The 20 month old son of famous aviator Charles Lindbergh had been kidnapped and murdered just five years earlier. Money I and Wally were not as famous as Lindbergh, but they were prominent and their wealth was no secret. Money I was frantic, desperate, frightened, nearly out of her mind. It was later revealed that Wally had instructed the baby's nurse to take the child to a hotel and stay hidden. A charade he allowed to continue for a week. He finally called for baby Wally to be returned to his mother and even dropped his divorce lawsuit. Money I was having none of it. Her anger had chilled to an icy fury. Wally, in whatever this madness was, had gone too far. Whether out of remorse or in hopes of putting an end to the whole psycho soap opera he'd engineered, Wally financed a trip to Reno, Nevada, so that Money I could obtain her own divorce. And that's exactly what she did. She won full custody of their son and received a cash settlement of $135,000. That equated to just a tick under 3 million in today's money. Was she done? No, not our girl. She'd learned that the little raiding party Wally had put together in Miami had informed hotel guests and anyone else who'd listened that they'd caught her unclad and insinuated that she'd been engaged in very licentious behavior. Money I sued the entire group. Her first number was a half million dollars. But then she reconsidered and changed that number to a million bucks. You know what that equates to? Try over $21 million today. Forget a woman scorned. Hell hath no fury like a woman falsely accused, cruelly deprived of her child, and then mocked in public by a bellboy. Money I had not been brought up to be any man's victim. And the former actress knew how to court the press, how to dazzle the camera, how to tell her story to a public that feasted on gossip and scandal, and any lurid tidbit that ripped the curtains back on the lives of the pampered and privileged. Get it Queen. We could just talk for days about how vice laws and the near impossibility of obtaining a divorce kept women without Money I's resources chained to marriages that were cold and lifeless at best,

abusive and tyrannical at worst. The laws on divorce in New York where Money I and Wally resided were draconian. Adultery was the grounds for marriage to be dissolved. And when Wally decided, for whatever reason, that he wanted out, he had to cook up a case of adultery. That's why the rating party in Miami, those laws weren't reformed until 1966. When cruelty and abandonment were included as grounds for dissolution of marriage. It wasn't until 2010 that no fault divorce was signed into law in New York. Money I was only able to beat the system because she had wealth and education, access to power. Think how many women back then didn't have her resources. How marriage for lots of those women was closer to servitude than any sparkling romantic fantasy. Money I took her big old divorce settlement and bought a ranch in Reno. What a plot twist for the heiress turned actress turned New York power wife. This is the moment where we discover what her true passion was in life. Not acting, not being rich and living the high life. Her passion wasn't even beating Wally Groves at his own game, though she had. No. What Money I Lindley Groves truly loved was love. The foreman she'd hired to manage her ranch was a dashing cow hand with a pencil mustache named Paul Peterson. They fell in love, married in 1939 and enjoyed a fabulous honeymoon in New York City. Take that, Wally. You could call it a May-December romance. Not because of any age difference. It's just they got hitched in May and split up in December. Peterson, a true cowboy and a gentleman of the West, declined to take advantage of Nevada's divorce laws, which would have granted him half of Money I's fortune. Instead, he kissed her on the cheek and wished her well and rode off into the sunset. In what felt to Reno locals like minutes later, Money I Lindley Groves Peterson was in love again. This time to a renowned local attorney named Gordon Rice. They married just 2 weeks after Gordon's from his first wife was finalized. This time, Money I bypassed New York for her honeymoon and the couple instead toured Havana, Cuba and New Orleans. They'd only just returned to the Reno ranch to set up house when they were in a terrible car accident. Gordon was behind the wheel when the vehicle crashed into a culvert. He was bruised and battered and suffered a bad cut to one leg, but his new bride fared far worse. Money I's injuries were severe, lacerations and cuts, one thigh fractured, her chest crushed. Who knows what the whole story is? Did Money I blame Gordon for the wreck?

What we do know is that the marriage ended less than a year after it began. Money I Lindley Groves Peterson Rice was single once again, but love. Am I right? But what has become of my heart? Now that my baby's gone away, what's this emptiness inside? Wish I'd realized right at the start. Money I met the German landscape painter Louis Heinsmann on New Ten minutes later, a slight exaggeration, but only slight.

Money I had often denied the pairing was a legal one. Maybe it's because this marriage didn't even last six months. His art far outlived it. In fact, Heinsmann is still known today for his oil paintings of Nevada, Utah and California. Whether she admitted to the marriage or not, lucky number five was already waiting in the wings.

His name was Edward Cupit. That's right. One consonant away from Cupid. Less than 24 hours after his divorce from wife Phyllis was finalized, the former deputy sheriff pledged his I dues to Money I. It was May 21st, 1941. With yet another brand new gold band gleaming on the third finger of her left hand, Money I boarded a flight to New York. Her first husband, Wally, was on trial for securities fraud and how delicious it must surely have been for Money I, Lindley Groves, Peterson Rice, Heinsmann, Cupit to take the stand to testify against her former man who was convicted and sentenced to two years in prison.

They say revenge is a dish best served cold and this was one frosty treat for Wally's ex. Now, I don't know what went wrong between Money I and her rugged fifth husband. All I know is that she found love again in 1943 when she married another cowboy, husband number six. Domenic Peri was the son of an Italian immigrant. He was an experienced rancher and no doubt brought all sorts of tall, dark and handsome to the party. This marriage looked like it might be the one.

Three years and they were still together but Peri was a patriot and he joined the US Army during World War II. He was shipped off to the Pacific and Money I promptly divorced him saying that he'd left her to manage the ranch all alone. This time, Money I stayed single. Not forever, don't be silly, but for three whole years. It was the wedding drought of her life. Toiling away on her ranch, one glorious sunrise melting into yet another spectacular sunset. The weeks and months melting into years but love, am I right?

But what has become of my heart? Now that my baby's gone away. Husband number seven was no cowboy. He was no Wall Street tycoon. His name was Al Price. Like Heinsman, he was an artist, sculptor but his real enthusiasm was the occult. Al Price was a hypnotist and marriage number seven was unlike any of Money I, Lindley Groves, Peterson Rice, Heinsman, Cupit, Peri, Price's other nuptials. The couple threw a party at Money I's ranch and the groom conducted a seance. Price placed one of the guests a ranch hand into a hypnotic state. To prove that the man was truly hypnotized, a guest was encouraged to touch the man's bare with a lit cigarette. Sure enough, no reaction. Then it got weird. Well, it got weirder. Deep in trance, the ranch hand declared the fate of the newlyweds. They must leave Reno, head for an artist colony in California.

They were to travel incognito, use fake names once they arrived, and commit themselves to the study of philosophy. So, you know, being only on my third marriage, I cannot confirm that it's tradition to turn the seventh wedding into a spooky fest because that's what this was. But the spirits had spoken. In no time at all, trucks were packed, the ranch was leased, and the newlyweds headed west in Money I's bright yellow car, her little Siamese cat perched on her lap.

And 18 months later, Money I was back in Reno, the hypnotist husband nowhere in sight. The local papers were once again filled with stories about Money I heading to court. But this time, it wasn't for a divorce. She repoed her ranch, kicked the man she leased it to off the land, and sued him for failing to pay for two vehicles she'd sold him. Now, you must know that she won that case. This woman had spent so much of her life among lawyers that she probably could have passed convincingly for one herself. Ranch back in hand, she turned around and sold the property outright. Then she bought another ranch and appears to have stayed single for a good while. She returned to the stage, community theater in Reno. In 1949, she received rapturous reviews for her portrayal of Constance in the play The Women. If she missed her glamorous life in Hollywood or New York, you'd never know it. She devoted herself to her community. She donated a valuable Appaloosa horse to be raffled off by the local Reno rodeo. She was lauded for her efforts to encourage competition and improved horsemanship in the local Native American population. She helped organize and appeared in a variety show staged for the benefit of the VFW. She was a fixture around town. And if her name appeared in the newspapers, it was low key, like the report of a traffic ticket or a land purchase. Had much married money, I finally got matrimony out of her system.

Dinner at eight. One or the other arriving late. A break in the date. The pendulum swings. Oh, that's a lovely thing. Nah. In 1955, she became Mrs. Money Eye, Lindley Groves, Peterson Rice, Heinsman, Cupit, Peri, Price, Noah. Who was and a foreman with the power company. Like the others before him, Edwin wasn't here for a long time. Just a good time. He had a brush with disaster in 1959 when he and his stepson, baby Wally, a whole lot more grown since his kidnapping and now going by the name Norman. They were caught in a storm on Pyramid Lake. They managed to make it to shore where they built a fire and to dry out their clothing. But the fire went out at 2 a.m. and the pair huddled together in near zero temperatures, walking up and down the beach in an attempt to stay awake, not freeze to death. Rescue came when another fisherman spotted the pair a little after eight the next morning.

Tragedy averted. Unfortunately, though, this close call was not enough to hold Money Eye and Edwin's marriage together. Nine months later, the Reno newly granted divorce decrees, and there it was in print. Money Eye's eighth marriage was over. Her eighth marriage and her last one. Money Eye was now 52 years old, living at her Cinnabar Hill ranch in Sparks, Nevada. She disappeared from the news until August 1964. This time, the story had not even a hint of the reckless glamour that had been her calling card. It went like this. A Sparks woman was charged early this morning by Reno police with reckless driving and driving on the wrong side of a street or highway. The article described how Money Eye struck two parked cars. It was rumored she was drunk at the time. And then five years later, she was in the news again. And this time there would be no undoing the tragedy. Not with lawyers or money or a fresh chance at love. Money Eye died in a house fire at her ranch. The roads that fateful night were covered in snow, and the fire truck slipped and slid and struggled to make their way to Cinnabar Hill. When they finally arrived, there wasn't enough water at the scene to fight the fire. They ended up pumping water out of the indoor swimming pool in Money Eye's basement. Fire chief declared that the blaze had begun in the family room, started most likely by a neglected lit cigarette. This larger than life, incredibly vivid character was gone.

There would never be another wedding or honeymoon. But everyone who knew her agreed that Money Eye would have loved the press coverage surrounding her because almost every reporter got her age wrong. She was 60 when she died, not 51 or 52 or 55. You might have expected that reports of Money Eye's death would be a gossipy rehashing of her rollercoaster love life, her many marriages. But the press and her adopted home state of Nevada were far more respectful. Instead of her time in Hollywood or her first husband's prison sentence or her eight trips to the altar, they celebrated Money Eye's long career in ranching, spanning 1937 through 1953. From the Nevada State Journal, her Arabian horses were recognized as one of the finest in the West, winning many ribbons in various shows. She also raised thoroughbreds, which were raised in California. She is survived by her son, Norman, and two grandchildren, David and Deborah. And you know what's pretty remarkable about this simple obituary? At a time when women were typically defined by their husband's name and accomplishments, this woman who'd clobbered eight husbands was defined entirely by her own achievements. It's almost as if everyone understood that Money Eye's marital merry-go-round was something she did and not all that she was. There's so many perspectives you can take on the life of Money Eye, Lindley Groves, Peterson Rice, Heinz McHugh, Peri Price, Noah. Was she a free spirit? A woman in love with love? An impulsive romantic who could collect anything her heart desired? And what her heart desired was some elusive, happily ever after with a husband? And if not this one, then maybe the next? Or perhaps this is the way to see it. The rich are different. They get to make their own rules most of the time. And maybe it's not so much that money makes breaking the rules easier, as it is that money makes you care a whole lot less about what other people think of you breaking those rules. The laws governing marriage were harsh in Money Eye's day, but enough money will smooth almost anything over.

Couple that with blazing confidence and a near-complete disregard for social conventions and you get a wild card like Money Eye, Lindley Groves. Well, you know the rest. Money Eye was born to privilege and comfort, encouraged to follow her wildest dreams, and given the resources to do just that. I think she knew in her bones the real truth about wealth. It's not happiness that money buys, it's freedom. Don't waste a minute feeling sorry for Money Eye and her eight marriages. Yeah, she got it wrong eight times, but she had the freedom to keep chasing her happiness, the freedom to keep believing that the next set of vows would be the forever I do's. And remember, she did it all at a time when a woman couldn't even have a credit card in her own name.

Two lovers need to realize Each will have to reach a little compromise But just when their lives are calm and quiet One's bound to turn around and start a riot Over the top, that roller coaster begins to drop There's no way to stop the heartaches that sting Oh, that's the lovely thing Oh, that's the lovely thing Next time on True Weird Stuff. Tell someone today that you think the planet Mars used to be home to an advanced civilization, that there are Martian-made artifacts dotting that barren landscape, that NASA is lying about what those structures and shapes really are, and you'll be labeled a kook. But not all that long ago, the whole USA went silent and everyone held their breath in hopes of hearing a radio transmission from our Martian cousins. That's the next True Weird Stuff.

Hey, we want to start off by thanking the voice actor who took on the role of Money Eye and her eight last names, Diana Sanders. Thank you so much for playing Money Eye, Lindley, Gross, Peterson, Rice, Cooper, Berry, blah, blah, blah. I thought it would be fun to tell a story that did not involve a drop of blood, really, or any mayhem or any creepy little kids knocking on the door. Because at the moment that we are dropping this episode, things are going extra nutty. People are a small minority, a vocal minority, but they're loud and insistent, are looking to really turn back the clock on women in this country. Of course, the end of Roe v. Wade, but the state of Alabama just gave frozen embryos personhood. We have legislators coming after IVF, which is devastating. I don't know if you have anyone in your life, anyone in your family that needed IVF to have a child.

For a lot of people, it's the only way they were able to have children. And to prevent that seems criminal to me. Criminal. They're also coming after hormonal birth control. Hormonal birth control is the latest buzzword for oral contraception pill. There's some talk about unwinding no-fault divorce on the grounds that women are just recklessly, fecklessly marrying and walking out of marriages on an impulse, which is kind of what Monaei's story looks like at a casual glance.

But it's way more complicated than that. Moneye was able to get married eight times because she had the resources to get married eight times. There are a lot of stories that we tell and true weird stuff where bigamy is in the background. Remember William Goldensop, the headless Dutchman. You know, both he and the woman he was living with were bigamists. And you say to yourself, why were there so many bigamists back in the day? Because they couldn't get divorced.

So you might have a couple that just agreed to part ways and go their separate ways. And then maybe they would marry again or cohabitate or whatever. Bigamy. The episode called Unholy City, the leader of the cult, the perfect Christian divine way, William Riker was a bigamist. I know people who in their family history, Pawpaw was a bigamist. Turns out Great Grandma was a bigamist. And people are like, oh, my God, it's so shameful. What was wrong with them? Well, they were trying to live their lives within the confines of laws that really stepped all over individual rights, freedoms and autonomy.

And I cannot believe, Max, that we even have to have a conversation about people wanting to return to that thought. Yeah, I'm reminded of a call we once had on Bob and Sherry, where this woman went to the beach and with this man that she barely knew. And while they were there, they drunkenly got married. And so we asked, so are you married now? Yes, I am.

Did you get divorced from the first man? And there was this pause and she went, shh. I, you know, I think that money, I she you're right. She was in love with love. And I do believe that each of these times she thought, yes, this is it. She got caught up in the infatuation of the moment. Those feelings feel so real in that moment. If you've ever fallen in love and then around later and gone, what was I thinking? You know, I I agree. She she was a deeply romantic person, but she was smart as a whip, too, and would not be would not allow herself to be walked on. The number of people who suffered the indignity of a hotel raid, it's shocking.

It is shocking how many people had the door of their motel or hotel room kicked open by a squadron of, you know, hard bitten cops and fedoras. Like, what the what? But it was a thing. It was a very common thing in this country, starting in, like, maybe the early 1930s, right through the maybe late 1950s. And you can some of these hotels, they called them hot motels.

And a hot motel was a place, you know, where people were clearly going to fornicate and adultery. And so it was kind of like cops, you know, parking off the side of the road outside the local honky tonk and scooping up drunk drivers like you knew that there were some crimes going on at the hot motels. And so you'd go after them. It's it's hard for me as an American.

I'm born when I was born to comprehend that that anyone would be pro. Yeah, let's let's let's live like that again. Let's do that. I did think that it was interesting. And I think it's a sign of the times that I believe it was the second husband who was the ranch hand who said, no, I don't want any of your money. I just all right. Let's just let's just part from here.

I'll leave with what I came with and just move on. Does anybody act that way anymore? Everybody is like, I'm going to get mine, you know. Oh, my God. I got wiped out. You did. And I got I have I will never recover from the economic beating that I took. I had a judge say to me, you wanted equality. Here it is. And I mean, my first marriage, we had no children. I had it annulled. I mean, that's how like not a marriage. This was we had no children. And he cleaned me out. It was like he took everything but the sugar in the sugar bowl. I felt like he took the furniture. I could rollerblade around my living room with my dogs chasing me. He took everything.

I felt like Cindy Lou Who, like he got the last can of who hash. He took everything and the judge granted him alimony. The only reason the judge granted him alimony equivalent to more like I couldn't pay my bills like I was bouncing checks, paying this man, this alimony. And the only reason that it ended is because in all of his feckless, reckless stupidity, he got a woman pregnant. And his father was like, you're marrying her son. That's the end of this nonsense. And so my lawyer called me up and said, I have great news. Your ex is about to be a father and you don't have to pay alimony anymore. So that was divorce. Number one divorce. Number two, I did not fare much better. I got my kids and and lost everything else. I will never be able to recover.

I may never be able to retire. Like, it's a complete shitshow. That said, that said, I would give everything up because those were not those are not marriages that I could thrive in. Or I mean, you know, Max, right? Like it was not it was not what was happening. It's not okay. No. And people go, Oh, you know, you're just hard to get along with and blah, blah, blah. Oh, trust me.

No, I'm not. I fled my first marriage with the clothes on my back as my ex was putting his fist through the wall next to my head. So just give me a break right there. Right. I was delighted to give him every nickel I'd ever earned. Not much different on the second one. So I kind of feel I kind of feel for money. Because if you are a person who believes in love and marriage, you know, you're, you're probably going to give it another try. I'm very happily married now and have been for we've been together 15 years. So I did finally get it right. But the idea that the law that we would live in a country in the year of our Lord bejeebers at 2024, that we would live in a country where the government can tell you who you live with and how you live. I'm sorry, but no.

Yeah, I, I was engaged to be married. Sherry knows this story very well. I was engaged to be married and eight weeks before the wedding called it off. And ballsiest thing ever. You know, and you know, it was a it was a really difficult thing to do. She I don't mind talking about this much because she has since passed away. But I it was it was a really difficult thing to do because it was it was something that I had rebounded out of relationship. I, you know, I've been living with a woman, which I guess was against the law, technically, but I had fornicate and she left me for someone else. And all of a sudden, I had this relationship weeks later and probably had no business doing that. But the thing about a marriage, too, is it becomes sometimes it becomes about the wedding. And sometimes it becomes about everything but what the relationship is between the two of you. And the fact was we were not getting along.

Now, she was willing to move forward with the marriage with us being like that. She just thought that's what happens. That's just how you are with people. And my feeling was, no, I think that you should not be in this much disagreement about so many things. And we're wise and we're wise, you know. So as somebody who's never been married, of course, you can you can say, wow, you know, how could you comment on this? And it's just that the idea is that you are always hopeful that you can find that love in your life. You know, you're hopeful that you can find somebody that you can be with, that you can you can build a life together. But there's no guarantees of anything. There's no guarantees of how the other person is going to act after you get married. There's just no guarantees of anything. And the one thing that's true about that situation is I had so many people come to me and say, I knew my situation was just like yours.

I knew it going in. I knew it walking down the aisle. But I married that person and had three kids with them and then only sorted this out 20, 30 years later. I had many people tell me that. Well, Max, I will confess. So my second marriage, that he is the father of my two children and they are my life. I everything is for my girls. So I would never unwind that decision or undo it. But I will confess to my everlasting shame and regret that I did not want to go through with the wedding. And on the morning of my wedding day, I was in a panic, like an absolute trembling panic because I knew I was making a mistake. And here, you know, my mom and stepdad, they were like, we want you to have a wedding and a beautiful dress. And, you know, it was in a church and my ex had a son from his first marriage that I utterly loved and adored and still do this day. And I just felt like I like a good like a true Capricorn. I just said to myself, buck up, girl, you can make anything work if you work at it. But I knew I knew I was making a mistake. And and I will not demonize that man. I will tell you that I knew I was making a mistake.

I knew that I did not love him. And I also knew that he didn't love me. Like we can get all like gooey and romantic and act like high school students or whatever. But but love is real. Love, love is a real living thing that can transform a person. And, you know, love when you encounter it. And I knew that this man did not love me, this man needed me, which is not the same thing. Need is not the same thing as love. And if you fall into the trap of needing to be needed, that's a bad, that's a bad combination. Well, I'm very, you know, I am the product of a chaotic early life. I was all of my boundaries were thoroughly trampled and violated at a very early age. I grew up in domestic violence and addiction. I am a people pleaser and I'm codependent. I've had eons worth of therapy. I've trained social worker myself. And so I can see I can see all of my damage and, and dysfunction. But that's like saying, I can see that my leg is broken, I'm still going to try to walk on it, right? Like I can see it, but that doesn't seeing it doesn't make it magically go away. And I was in over my head. You know, my, my, my mom and stepdad had paid a lot of money for this wedding. And people were coming from all over the country. And I'm a, you know, I have like a real public job. It was in the newspaper. It was on the cover of a local magazine. Oh, yeah. Like, I just felt like I have to do this. I have to do it. And it was, it went south, like almost right away. It was like, as soon as the ink dried on the marriage license, my ex was like, well, she's not going anywhere. And the the emotional and mental and psychological abuse began. And I'm going to name it and claim it because that's what it was. Now, is marriage good for children is an intact family good for children, you betcha. It is absolutely good for children until it isn't. My parents stayed married for 17 years, while my brothers and I literally cowered behind our beds for fear that my father was going to kill us all. There was so much chaos, gunfire and insanity in my life, that when my parents got divorced, we thought, okay, we have a fighting chance to make it to adulthood. So marriage is good for children until it isn't.

My marriage never had the meth and handguns that my parents marriage did. But I was I was slowly being hollowed out. I came home from a business trip one time, my flight had been canceled and canceled and canceled. I was in San Diego, and finally got on a plane that got me home about one o'clock in the morning. And I walked in the door and the house was dark except for the flickering light of the television and my ex was sitting on the couch watching something and I I'm glad to see you. And so I'm like, what? What is this? And I was like, I'm home.

And he goes, Yeah, I'll be honest, I was kind of hoping your plane will crash. Marriage is good for children until it is. Marriage is good for children until it isn't. And, and as someone who's on her third marriage, it may seem that I am cavalier and casual about that commitment. But you're not. No, you're not. I'm not. I'm not. And marriage is good for children. My daughters are now part of a big blended family. They have, we call them bonus siblings, but they have step siblings.

My husband's ex wife is like my sister. She is a second mother to my daughters. My girls got uncles, like all sorts of wonderful things. Has it been like a constant birthday party? No, we've had a lot of struggle. You don't you don't build a family like that without a lot of effort and frustration and tears. And I mean, yeah, marriage is really good for children until it isn't. And money, I only had one child, Wallace Groves, Jr. Wally, he after the kidnapping and all the shenanigans, he changed his name to Norman and has disappeared into a very private life.

Can I just point out that if you're going to change your name, I don't know, maybe something a little more lyrical than Norman. Well, of course, this was pre-Hitchcock psycho, so he had no idea what he was opting into. So, Monaei's first husband, Mr. Stock Market Fraud, he went to prison, but he got out really fast, remarried, ended up living in the Caribbean and having himself quite a time. He went on and had a fine life after Moneye. And here's my question to you, Max. Why did he do what he did?

Because that was the trigger that started this whole story. She was postpartum. She had just had their first child. He's the one who's like, you need a vacation, sunshine and orange juice. And then he cooks up this whole scheme. What was that? Here's what I think. Moneye was no shrinking violet and she probably never was a shrinking violet at any point in her life and probably grew stronger as she got older and got a better sense of herself. But I think that for him, this was a power play of I'm going to show you.

Now, we don't know what happened specifically between the two of them, but I suspect that there was a bit of a power struggle. And he said, oh, yeah, I'm in charge and I'm going to show you how. Oh, that's a good that is a good theory. And he humiliated her. Oh, my God. Yes. You know, bringing that crowd of people into that hotel bathroom, she's soaking wet and shivering and naked and everyone's gawking and leering and she hears them laughing and drinks on me.

That was that's abuse right there. Right. That's like horrifying. And had she had she stayed, had she no option but to stay? Do you see the pattern? Can you see what would have been set into motion? Right. If she had been a woman without any resources at all, internal, external, just, OK, this is my life now. This man can do as he pleases. He has the law and the power on his side. And he, by the way, as sometimes if you're patient enough and let the story play out, you can see that people do get people show you who they are and then they get what's coming to them. So this same man who did this really. Can we agree that that was a horrific?

I mean, it's terrible. I mean, it's just about it's just about as awful as it can be. And then took the baby and hid the baby for a week. Like this is this is some stuff, OK? This man then he was committing fraud and hiding money. And, you know, eventually he was tried, convicted and sent to prison. So he kind of showed you right at the jump who he was.

Go ahead and believe it. Yeah, he was all about power and his his own ego and control and all of that stuff. And. So the the fun thing was, like, if you're you'd have to be, I guess, I don't even know how old you would have to be to, like, even comprehend that you had to go to Reno to get divorced. Yeah. Like movie stars, politicians, like everybody who wanted a divorce, an easy, quick divorce, had to go to Reno. And it wasn't cheap. And the fact that we had something called the migratory divorce trade. Whoa. OK. The state where I live, the divorce laws in the state where I live are you have to be legally separated for two domiciles for a year before you can even file.

And I guess I don't know. Like, do they think that in that year, you know, you might change your mind? I don't know what that's about. It's punitive. I'm sure that that's what the idea is. Just cool off for a little bit and then maybe you'll want to get back together. And people and that does happen from time to time. I mean, people do.

Whether it's whether whether the whether the government should be legislating such a thing is the question. What I love about Nevada, Nevada is one of the last vestiges of the old wild west in this country because it's still kind of the old wild west there. You know, it is. And even Reno's easy divorce laws reflected the ethos of the West, which is a person out here has some room to think and be and be free. Right. And we don't cotton to you stepping on those rights much out here in the land of manifest destiny. And that's why she's so right. Yeah, that's why she settled there, because that fit with her personality, that it wasn't just getting divorced there. I mean, that really fit with her personality. She was a very important citizen of Reno in terms of the community service work that she did. Right. And her generosity. She was she was an incredible rancher. I mean, the fact that at her death, all of the Nevada newspapers wrote in glowing terms about her skill with horses and her commitment to the native, the indigenous people and her stewardship of the land. Like she was an incredible rancher.

You won't find a mention in those Nevada obituaries, those glowing editorials about her brief Hollywood career or her many, many marriages. You just won't find it. Because to your point, Max, that was a place where that individuality and that right to in a lot of ways. There's a lot of people who are very successful, good citizens, but have not been able to get the personal life part of their lives together. And I am always very suspicious of people who are really judgy about that, who act like, wow, they just this or they just that, you know, why are you so judgy about that? Because as one who's been judged?

Oh, yeah. Well, it often like the person who's the first to say to you, well, I can't respect you, you canceled your wedding, or I can't really be your friend, you're getting divorced. Like, wow, is my is my life stepping on your nerve? Like, what's why is this so triggering for you? I mean, Max, I think a lot of the people that were judgy of you for canceling a doomed, you canceled a wedding that for a doomed marriage, you saved yourself and her and your families. Right. And it's and it was not something that go ahead, say what you're going to say. I think a lot of the people that judge you had their own deep, deep regrets and their own serious misgivings. Yeah. It was, I think, one of the most difficult things that I've ever done ever. But there was never a time where I looked back and said, I shouldn't have done this.

Did I have feelings about the fact that I was hurting her and all the people that were connected to this? Yeah, I had terrible feelings. People were traveling. People were trapped. People were traveling from overseas to come to this wedding who had made plans. And it was it was a very difficult thing to do. I did not do it. I did not wake up one day and go, I just don't I'm not going to do this. Here's what happened. And this is where listen to your friends. People said, shouldn't you be happy about this? And I thought, should I be?

And the answer is, yes, you should be happy about it. You should not be entering anything, any kind of a big commitment like that and think, well, I'm sorry this has taken on a life of its own. I'm just going to have to let this go and try to tough it out. You shouldn't do that. And it's it's very difficult to listen to your own internal voice because there's people that always say, when you know, you know. And you did. I did. And and, you know, Max, we're set. Max and I are such Swifties, but it's like that lyric in the in the Taylor Swift song.

It's isn't it supposed to be fun turning 21? Like, isn't it supposed to be joyful getting ready to pledge your life to the person you love? Right. Speaking of somebody who gets judged a lot with her relationships. Oh, my God. Oh, you know, she's a great example. She's a great example of that, where she has so many things in her life that are together. This part of her life hasn't worked out yet, although I'm of the belief that it is going to work out. We'll see if I'm right.

I'm hopeful. You know, I'm very team, Tavis. I think so. One of the reasons that I like Taylor Swift, but I'm not going to say team Tavis. Is it OK if I don't say that? No, it's OK. We all we all have our limits and I respect you for knowing. You don't have to go ahead with what you were saying. So one of the things that I mean, I've been a Taylor Swift fan for a very long time because like, you know, like a lot of adults, if you're honest, the my outside has moved through time. But inside, I don't feel any different than I did when I was 19. I just still have all the same like, oh, oh, kind of, you know, like daydreamy romantic impulses. I have not changed. My favorite foods haven't changed. Like I have just not changed. So I'm always such a staunch defender of Taylor Swift. And one of the challenges, I think, with her personal life, if I may, we live in a culture where being a successful, empowered and powerful women changes your dating options. And dramatically, and it can be very difficult to be in a relationship in our culture, the way it is configured, the way we have all been socialized from early childhood into our cishet gender roles. OK, it can be very difficult for a man to find himself in such an odd and backward equation where this woman has so much wealth and power and attention, and her career is so enormous and demanding. And you may think you're OK with that in the early days of infatuation. But it's difficult for a man to be Mr. Mr. So-and-so, Mr. Taylor Swift, Mr. Cher, Mr. Madonna. I mean, I had a lot of struggle at a tinier, much smaller level with the problem of being Mr. Sheri Lynch. And you know that because you were there for it.

Yeah, that's true. I'm not sure how I would react in a situation like that. I'm not sure. But in the case of Taylor Swift, I'd love to, you know, at least have the opportunity to find out. Yeah, I think part of the reason that she and Travis Kelsey work and make some sense as a couple is because he is so incredibly successful and defined in his own right in a career that has absolutely zero to do with hers. That is part of the reason why when they first started going out, I said, this is the he's they're going to marry. They have found each other because he he is he's a man's man. There's no doubt about that. And he does have a great sense of himself. But they also are both at an age where they have enough experience to really know what they want, I think. And I think that's why I thought I think that they are going to get engaged and are going to get married. I hope so. I love them as a couple. And I love I love that for her that he's so he seems OK, like we don't know. We're just speculating. Right. Because we don't know. But he seems and when you look at like his parents and his brother, I'm a big fan of their podcast, New Heights, Travis and Jason Kelsey's podcast, which I don't know any I can't tell you which side of the field you should run on with a football under your arm. Like I know nothing.

But I thoroughly enjoy this podcast because they're so charming as hosts. He seems very much secure in himself. He knows who he is, knows what he wants, has been incredibly driven his whole life from childhood, as is Taylor. And he doesn't need he doesn't need to have a partner who is his mirror. Right. You know, who shines back and reflects on him all of his glory. He doesn't need that to complete him. And isn't it interesting while we're I just as I said that I thought, you know, the Justin Timberlake song Mirrors is a love song, but it's it's like you're my mirror, my mirror looking back at me. OK.

Perhaps it is not optimal to commit yourself to your mirror looking back at you, like maybe, maybe the goal is to commit yourself to another human being who is whole and complete in him or herself. Seriously, it's going to be a lot better because because nobody can live up to that kind of dependence. Nobody can live up to somebody else depending on that person.

And the reason for that is you're human, you're human and human beings are flawed. And you're going to let people down when you put somebody on a pedestal like that and rely on them for your own self-worth. I think that's just the freaking basic truth of it. Now, why that is some of us. I don't know. I mean, because we we are sometimes we are broken puzzle pieces and our brokenness fits with the other person's brokenness in the worst kind of way. I mean.

Yeah, yeah. Amen to that. It's you look at you look at a life like money ice and you can take it in so many different ways. You can say spoiled rich girl, you can say neurotic and love with love. There's like a million different interpretations that you can make on that life. But here's yet another way to see it. I mean, I really think that money and freedom, you know, that is the greatest thing you can buy with your money is your freedom.

But here's another way to look at it. We forget like where you grow up or how you grow up. I kind of feel like as as as human animals, we are wired to seek a mate and not just to procreate like it's like our souls are looking for that other half. And we we feel like it's inevitable. And this is cultural that we will find that right sooner or later. There's you've heard the expressions, there's someone for everyone, your perfect person waits, so many fish in the sea, blah, blah, blah, right. And so we do kind of believe and expect that that other half is out there. And I think that money I just was convinced that her perfect partner was waiting for her.

And she kept finding him and then realizing, yeah, maybe not the one, possibly girl, because you were marrying these men. No, like a minute after you met them, like maybe take some time to get to know. But that impulsive, romantic, all consuming, I think you're the one drove her. And you have to ask yourself if you had those kinds of resources, what choices might you have made differently? Truly, you know, if you could, if you could chase that dream of love over and over and over again, would you mean for a lot of us, we just simply can't. We no longer have the migratory divorce trade in America.

Instead, we have the life altering economic destabilizing divorce trade in America. And, you know, people, oh, well, men get the hard end of the deal. Oh, sweetheart, take all the seats. Every it's not just men. Don't come to Sheri Lynch with that. I can tell you from from don't come to me with that. And I'm not the only woman that has paid and paid dearly.

And then you look at the way that the whole family court system is set up. You know, you have people pissing and moaning about $300 a month in child support. Like I've raised a couple of kids 100% on my own and $300 is gone in a day sometimes. You know, there's the there's the there's two dentist appointments and new sneakers for Jim and we're boom, there's 300 bucks gone. So the idea that women are somehow scamming you for child support, like give me a break. There's so much rhetoric and so much bullshit around people's what should be people's deeply private family lives.

And now we're going to we're going to add to that by creating additional laws and additional punishments and additional rhetoric and bullshit. But tell me how that's going to help. Tell me. Tell me how if the if the problem that in this country is that marriage is no longer a sacred institution, and men and women no longer tie the knot expecting it to stay tied.

That to me is a problem that is not for the law to solve. That goes way deeper than the law can manage. That has something to do with the way that we are living the way that we are socializing and being socialized. I mean, I don't mean socializing and going to parties, the expectations that we're being raised with. Because we live in the most two faced hypocritical culture ever. With one face, you're being told marriage is one man and one woman. It's good for till death do us part forever. But with the other face, you you can barely survive sometimes in this culture. Because late stage consumer capitalism is a damn great white shark that's eating your head as you're trying to swim away. Like, you know, we we talk a good game about how important and sacred families and marriages and children are. And then we have so many forces mobilized against any of those things succeeding. And we think, oh, yeah, we probably need more more laws to keep to keep people together. It doesn't make sense to me. And it doesn't make sense to me not because of my own personal experience. It doesn't make sense to me because all you have to do, all you have to do is look at the sweep of history in this country to realize what comes after these punitive laws are put into place. Because people don't change. People will not stop fornicating. All these things, right? That's that's throughout human history.

Yeah. Like you can pass all the laws you want. You cannot legislate human nature. And you certainly cannot legislate human behavior when it comes to love and commitment and sex and fidelity and all that. Can you think of a single instance, Max, where those kinds of laws have have been effective for the good? No. In fact, in fact, if you if you want to know how ridiculous these laws are, there's a movie. It's called The Woo Woo Kid. So Patrick Dempsey played Sonny Wisecarver, who was a young man who ended up hooking up with this woman who was married.

And it became this enormous scandal, enormous, like newspapers, headlines, everything. It was just such a ridiculous thing that this became such a big story. Well, it wasn't just one woman. It was a couple of women, but nonetheless. And it was probably in the 19 probably 1930s, 1940s that this happened. I mean, when you think about I mean, sure, people are going to want to read about it, but is it the biggest non news story ever? It's it really should not be anyone's business like. How about if the government focuses on the roads and the bridges?

What I'm saying? Yeah, I'm sorry. You're drinking water. This one. Yeah. You know, people people going to people. And that's just the thing about it. And of course, they only do it because people have an idea of what the way they think things should be. And the politicians go, is that what is that what dance I have to do? All right, fine. I'll put this law into place.

I'll just do it. So you go, oh, OK, fine. Oh, this person's thinking like I'm thinking, although the law is completely ridiculous, completely. I just feel like it might be a better use of government resources to inspect the drinking water in Flint, Michigan, than to inspect what's happening in my bedroom. And that now, granted, not everybody agrees with that. Some people are like, no, we got to make sure you not fornicating before we can worry about the drinking water. But yeah. So something that I was thinking about as we wrap up this episode on Money Eye, Lindley, Groves, Peterson, Cupit, Peri, all of her names. I was thinking about, as I often do, when we're creating an episode of is, gosh, we all think we're so important. And that what we think and feel and believe is so necessary for others to hear. And that our lives are so significant. And that we are by God, look at me, look at me, look at me. But you know, history, even recent history, is choked with people whose lives were lived on a very big stage, who made extraordinary differences and accomplishments and achievements.

And you don't know their name. They're completely forgotten. Like they never existed. So you have to say to yourself, well, if that's the deal, and it is, right? It is the deal. If that's the deal, then maybe I should just mind my business and do the best I can to be a decent human being in my little patch of ground. I think that in the end, it's the little, it's the kindnesses, it's the, I'll use the word, it's going to sound really, but the energy that we give, that we give to people. And if that person takes, let's say it was something where I found some little time in my life where I was able to do something that was kind for that person. And that inspired them to do it for somebody else. And that inspires somebody else. And it ripples, if we can ripple through people's lives. If I throw the pebble into the pond and it ripples out in a positive way, it doesn't matter whether anybody ever remembers what my name is. What's important is the ripple and the energy and what positive things that can do, because I'm never going to have a building named after me, but it doesn't matter to me, you know? Totally. I just kind of feel like if you want to make a difference in the world, load up your car with some non-perishable food items and some cartons of ultra pasteurized milk, go take them to the food bank. Instead of endlessly pissing and moaning because your next door neighbor has a husband who's also a man. You know what I mean? Like two men are living next door to you and they're married and they're minding their business and cutting their grass and going to work every day. And your shorties are knotted up tighter in the tick over somebody else's bedroom business and love life and personal choices. How's about Gladys Kravitz and Mr. Kravitz? How's about if instead you take that energy that you are investing in hatred and judgment and maybe point it towards something where you can make a goddamn bit of good difference in somebody's life? How about that? Because you are going to be forgotten.

And don't tell anybody. Keep it a secret. But let me promise you all of your hatred and all your bumper stickers and all of your sloganeering and all of your internet trolling and all of your yelling and screaming and shouting and rage will die with you and be as forgotten as you are going to be. I'm going to be forgotten. Max is going to be forgotten. We're all going to be forgotten.

So since we're all going to be a great big zero, why not use the time you have here? I'm going to it again and not be a dick. How about that? How about that? How about it is none of your business how many times money I got married. It is only your business how many times you get married and how you act in that marriage and leave everybody else the hell alone. Why is that so hard? Why is that so hard? Now, you're definitely going to want to be with us next week for True Weird Stuff because we're going to take you on a very exciting journey to Mars and you are going to hear things and learn things that you've never heard before and your jaw is going to drop and at the end of it you're going to be like, so that's why we're this way. And that's a promise. We'll see you next week. It's Mars. True Weird Stuff. Thanks for listening. And if you listen to us on Apple Podcasts, hit the plus button in the top right corner and now it helps an independent podcast like ours to get discovered. And we really appreciate it if you subscribe, rate, and review True Weird Stuff. Hit our website trueweirdstuff.com for show notes and photos and videos when we have it and bonus content. Everything true weird is waiting for you at trueweirdstuff.com. And follow True Weird Stuff on Instagram and Twitter. True Weird Stuff is a Now! Media production. Our executive along with my deeply weird director, Max Sweeten. Our equally odd producer is Kary Bowser.

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