Case file 156Conspiracies, Hoaxes & Frauds1900–1945

For the Lady, a Lysol Douche

For decades, America's top feminine hygiene product was a caustic disinfectant. The ads spoke in code, the formula burned, and the company knew.

Oct 2, 20261h 29m
00:00 / 1:29:02
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In this episode

  • Why Lysol's "feminine hygiene" ads weren't really about cleanliness — and what "germs" actually meant
  • How Anthony Comstock's crusade against contraception helped create a market for secret birth control
  • The 1933 evidence that exposed just how unreliable Lysol was as a contraceptive
  • The women who landed in hospitals after Lysol abortions — and the telltale evidence doctors found
  • The medical warning Lysol's maker ignored for 40 years while women continued using its caustic formula

“People found ways around the laws. One of those ways was Lysol.”

The story

In 1889, an Austrian chemist named Gustav Raupenstrauch went into his laboratory to stop a cholera epidemic tearing through Germany, and came out with Lysol. Within a few decades, the same disinfectant hospitals used to annihilate germs was being sold to American wives as the secret to a happy marriage — and used in one of the most intimate ways imaginable.

The ads called her "a jewel of a wife with just one flaw." That supposed flaw? Neglecting what Lysol called "feminine hygiene"; coded language that concealed a much bigger story about contraception.

Born to fight cholera

Cholera spreads through food and water contaminated with human feces, and in 1889 it was killing large numbers of people in Germany. Raupenstrauch's formula hit back hard. Austria's chief sanitary board announced that a 1% solution would annihilate the common bacillus, then added a selling point: "It renders the skin very smooth." The original formula contained compounds called cresols, which can destroy bacterial cell membranes. That's exactly what you want when battling bacteria like cholera. The problem? You don't want to breathe, swallow or apply cresols to your skin, where exposure can risk serious poisoning, coma or even death. Yet in 1893, a New York doctor praised Lysol as nontoxic and recommended it for use in gynecology and obstetrics.

The public found other uses. Lysol killed garden insects and mildew, and by 1911 it had become a common poison of choice for suicide. In 1933, one coroner, who had already held five inquests into Lysol suicides since the beginning of that year, warned that dying this way "involves a time of very great suffering" and was no easy way out.

Then came the Spanish flu pandemic of 1918, which killed somewhere between 25 and 50 million people worldwide. Lysol was front and center as a disinfectant of choice, promoted for preventing the spread of disease and widely used in hospitals.

Code words in the cupboard

In the 1930s, Lysol's maker began selling it as a feminine hygiene product. Back then, the phrase didn't mean springtime fresh. It was code for birth control, which was heavily restricted under federal and state laws.

Blame Anthony Comstock. A Civil War veteran turned New York salesman, Comstock was a devout Christian appalled by a city he saw crawling with pornography and prostitution. He fed the police tips for brothel raids, decided that easy birth control was an invitation to lewdness, and founded the New York Society for the Suppression of Vice. In 1872 he carried an anti-obscenity bill he had written himself to Congress, complete with a ban on contraception. The Comstock Act passed in 1873, restricting access to contraceptives, and a couple dozen states wrote their own versions. In Connecticut, even married couples could face a year in prison for using birth control in their own homes.

So the ads spoke in code. Sue's husband Tom has gone cold on her, and her doctor tells her, "It's foolish to risk your marriage happiness by being careless about feminine hygiene" — and that Lysol is "far more dependable than salt, soda, or other homemade solutions" when it comes to douching, or rinsing out the vagina. Dependable is an odd word for a cleanser, isn't it? The "germs" Lysol promised to hunt down were really sperm. The couples in the ads were young, attractive and conspicuously childless, and the ads settled the blame ahead of time: "Instead of blaming him if married love begins to cool, she should question herself." Other ads featured no-nonsense European lady gynecologists. Another played directly on women's fears, opening with the anguished line, "I just can't face it again!"

The Great Depression supercharged sales. Another mouth to feed could be a catastrophe, and preventing one was largely left to women. Douching was the most common form of birth control in America until the FDA approved the Pill in 1960, and for those decades the top feminine hygiene product was Lysol.

They knew, and kept selling

It didn't work. A 1933 study found that half or more of the women using Lysol as a contraceptive still got pregnant, and for the rest, nobody could say whether Lysol had anything to do with it. It also burned. By 1911, doctors had found at least five women who died after uterine irrigation, meaning their wombs were flushed with Lysol. In 1912, the American Medical Association's Council on Pharmacy and Chemistry told companies not to advertise disinfectants for use on the genitourinary tract. The recommendation had no teeth, and Lysol's parent company ignored it. The cresols remained in the formula until 1952.

When a woman sued over burns in 1935, the company argued that she must have been allergic. In 1941, it defended itself in another injury suit by pointing at the FDA: the package was labeled the way federal rules required.

The weird part

For decades, women were encouraged to douche with Lysol, the same disinfectant created to kill bacteria, as a form of birth control. It became America's top "feminine hygiene" product, even though the company knew by the 1930s that it was unreliable as a contraceptive. And the original formula contained cresols, caustic chemicals that could cause serious injury or even death.

The smell of phenol

Then there was abortion. In 1956, the journal Obstetrics & Gynecology described four women hospitalized after illegal abortions in which Lysol had been pumped into the womb. A 32-year-old arrived with a fever of 104 and port-wine-colored urine because her kidneys were shutting down. Her husband finally confessed that they had gone to a doctor for an abortion two days earlier. Within hours she was breathing like the dying, and an autopsy found massive necrosis, or tissue death, in her kidneys and liver. A 28-year-old patient of the same doctor survived, but the dead tissue scraped from her uterus smelled strongly of phenol, then a main ingredient in Lysol. An 18-year-old spontaneously aborted a four-and-a-half-month fetus after being admitted, and doctors found phenol in the fetal and placental tissue.

The medical establishment called Lysol abortions rare. But when they went wrong, the consequences could be catastrophic. By the 1960s, the reported mortality rate for patients who became septic after botched abortions and were admitted to a hospital was 11 to 22 percent. For those whose abortions had been induced with soap or Lysol, the reported death rate was 50 to 66 percent. More case reports followed: one from Buffalo physician Karl Finzer in the Canadian Medical Association Journal in 1961, and another in the New England Journal of Medicine in 1969.

Still in living memory

Once the Pill arrived, Lysol drifted quietly back to bathrooms, kitchens and the festering laundry piles of teenage boys. Then in 2020, President Donald Trump wondered aloud at a White House briefing whether disinfectant could somehow be used inside the body to fight COVID.

The suggestion was widely met with disbelief. But viewed through the strange history of Lysol, it raises an interesting question: Could the idea make some kind of crazy sense to people old enough to remember when a bottle of Lysol might have been tucked away in the bathroom cupboard — and wasn't meant for cleaning the tub?

The lesson fits on a label: Lysol ain't any kind of medicine. Not for anybody, not for any reason.

But it'll do a hell of a job on your bathroom.

The transcript

Chapters & full transcript13,287 words
Chapters
  1. 01:07A cure for cholera
  2. 09:14Feminine hygiene, decoded
  3. 14:30Mr. Comstock goes to Washington
  4. 26:33The smell of phenol
  5. 35:32The pill, and a 2020 echo
  6. 51:10Grandma's red rubber bag

This transcript was generated automatically from the episode audio and may contain errors. Times are approximate, since ad breaks can shift them by a minute or two.

00:00

Hey true weirdos just a minute before we get started and thank you so much for listening We are very proud of our brand new website true weird stuff.com It has all kinds of great stuff You are going to want to check this out And if we could just remind you to subscribe rate and review on whatever platform you listen to this podcast And thank you again You'll learn the meaning of easy cleaning with the only foam that's Lysol When you foam the tub you don't have to scrub with the only foam that's Lysol When I clean the bathroom, I want to know I'm killing germs so I use Lysol basin tub and towel cleaner Foaming actually kills household germs shines without scratching stops mold and mildew. Lysol basin tub and towel cleaner The only foam that's Lysol That's a very young Kathy Lee Gifford singing the praises of Lysol You probably have a can of the stuff somewhere in your house. It's been around forever Nearly a hundred and forty years now. Lysol wasn't always used as a household cleaner It was created by an Austrian chemist named Gustav Raupenstrauch to help halt an epidemic of cholera in Germany Lysol was intended to be used as a medical disinfectant And then it was marketed to women. She was a jewel of a wife with just one flaw Market it to women as a douche A Cholera epidemic it sounds like something from the olden times Imagine people dropping all around you with uncontrolled watery diarrhea cramping severe dehydration Cholera spread through water and food contaminated with human feces It sounds like olden times But also like summer 2026 when Americans were being taken out right and left by leafy greens and berries Carrying a parasite called cyclospora Truth is the whole story of the human race can be summed up in two words Shit happens and sometimes it's our own shit that kills us It was killing lots of people in Germany back in 1889 Which is what inspired Gustav Raupenstrauch to head into the laboratory where he invented Lysol. The chief sanitary board of Austria publishes a statement regarding the value of a series of new Disinfectants which in the view of cholera danger are of much interest The special attention of the public must be drawn to Lysol which is compounded of caustic potash opique acid and Chrysalin a solution of 1% Lysol is sufficient to annihilate the common bacillus at the shortest notice It is not at all of a corrosive nature on the contrary. It renders the skin very smooth Besides possessing cleansing power in an imminent degree. It is much less poisonous than carbolic acid Raupenstrauch's original formula was different from the version we buy today. It contains something called chrysals chrysals are organic compounds with all sorts of useful applications including an ability to destroy bacterial cell membranes Which is exactly what you're hoping for when you're battling a bacteria like cholera Trouble is you don't want to be breathing or swallowing or applying chrysals to the skin

04:10

Not because you can't handle a little irritation or burning but because you're risking a coma or death Even today even now we don't know what the long-term effects are from chrysals that have been swallowed or applied to the skin Are you thinking well, duh Only a lunatic would be drinking Lysol or washing their face with it, right?

04:34

We know that now We didn't always though October 1893 Lysol says dr. Eric Vandergoats of New York in addition to its germicidal power is without any toxic Property a point to be considered when it's used in cavities especially in gynecology and obstetrics in the latter and Especially in emergency cases Lysol is of the highest value Lysol was great in the garden too as an insecticide and mildew killer and by 1911 it was a common poison of choice For suicide the stories were everywhere It is learned that Rose Reeves who died by taking Lysol in Golden Gate Park a few nights ago Was about 20 years old and a native of Indiana Mrs. Margaret Everett the wife of a saloon keeper committed suicide last night by swallowing a large amount of Lysol She is said to have been temporarily insane from sickness and worry and the coroner found that the deceased committed suicide by Lysol poisoning while Temporarily insane the coroner said since the beginning of this year I have held no less than five inquests on persons who have committed suicide by Lysol poisoning in Addition there have been four attempts of suicide by Lysol poisoning since the beginning of the year This is a serious state of things It may be that people who have a suicidal tendency are attracted by the suggestion of these recent deaths by Lysol Poisoning as an easy way out of their difficulties I would call attention to the fact that death by Lysol poisoning is Painful and involves a time of very great suffering anyone thinking of an easy way out of their difficulty should not look to Lysol Poisoning it wasn't all bad publicity for Lysol when the Spanish flu pandemic swept the world in 1918 It was Lysol. It was front and center as the disinfectant of choice The virus that caused that pandemic was an influenza type a subtype h1n1 More than half a billion people worldwide were infected millions died Numbers range from 25 million to as many as 50 million deaths And there are multiple reasons to account for why that particular flu was so very deadly for one it wasn't even known that a virus was the cause of the pandemic they didn't make that discovery until the early 1930s a Bacteria was blamed which was correct for the secondary infections like pneumonia That stalked the sick their immune systems weakened by the flu made for the perfect target for bacteria to attack Unfortunately, just as there were no antiviral medications yet. There were also no antibiotics Penicillin wasn't discovered until 1928 and before we judge those dead millions for refusing the flu vaccine That wasn't a thing either not until 1945 Throw in poor living conditions poor nutrition Even something as seemingly benign as a vitamin deficiency made people more vulnerable to the virus plus 1918 World War one with its ghastly hellish trenches where soldiers shivered in cold dank pits gouged into the earth It was a daily hourly slog to raw sewage blood and garbage Injured exhausted and piled on top of one another it was a scene straight out of Dante's Inferno Except there was nothing allegorical about this hell. This hell was right here on earth You couldn't dream up a more perfect breeding ground for the virus Lysol disinfectant totally annihilates all germ life at the instant of contact. No germ can live an instant in its solution This is why all hospitals use

08:42

Lysol to prevent the spread of disease and why boards of healthy urgently recommend its use It's easy to understand how a product like Lysol became a fixture at hospitals and other institutional settings What's shocking is how it became something marketed to women for personal hygiene? Day after heartbreaking day I was held in an unyielding web a web spun by my husband's indifference I couldn't reach him anymore was the fault mine They began selling Lysol as a feminine hygiene product in the 1930s Well thinking, you know about feminine hygiene yet Trusting to now and then care can make all the difference in married happiness as my doctor pointed out He said never to run such careless risks and prescribed Lysol for douching always We hear feminine hygiene and we think of period products, you know Tampax Kotex My doll we hear douche and we think of those hysterical cringe TV commercials for the brand Massengill My douche, but only with natural ingredients. Who has natural ingredients?

10:04

Massengill. They have vinegar and water or baking soda. I dropped Massengill to make you feel naturally fresh. These ads ran on TV for decades You know, there are some things you just can't be sure of like blind dates or a new hairstyle Forget it But when I want to feel naturally fresh and clean, there's one thing I know I can trust Massengill douche It's been in my family forever Massengill vinegar and water has the natural ingredients. I love but at 100% Fresh clean feeling. Trust Massengill douche for freshness. You can be sure of. All douches are not alike Only Summer's Eve disposable douche has this unique one-piece flexible design for comfort and these gentle cleansing formulas Try the douche that's unique. Summer's Eve. It refreshes as it cleans. I like to feel fresh Fresh as a country lane after a spring shower I like to feel fresh and confident It's simple with Summer's Eve the most convenient disposable douche you can buy This exclusive one-piece unit means there's nothing to assemble and it's available in two fragrances or vinegar and water The solution doctors recommend. With Summer's Eve Freshness has never been simpler. Fresh as a country lane after a spring shower Yup, let's definitely compare our lady parts to a dirt road or or maybe an entire season Bring back the fresh cool clean feeling of summer anytime with Summer's Eve Keeps the good times on my mind. Summer's Eve brings back freshness anytime That's a Madison Avenue wet dream because here in the 21st century I can't imagine a single woman wanting to feel summer in her pants. Heat dome, drought, raging wildfires, hard pass Summer's Eve When the makers of Lysol began advertising their product as feminine hygiene back in the 1930s Those words meant something a little different than they do today Oh the joy of finding Tom's love and close companionship once more Believe me. I follow to the letter my doctor's advice on feminine hygiene I always use Lysol for douching. See the words feminine hygiene didn't really mean that springtime fresh feeling The words feminine hygiene were code for birth control Something that was illegal for married people until 1965 and illegal for single people until 1972 What kind of contraception was even available back then in the early 1900s?

13:06

Condoms for sure. The very first rubber condom was produced in 1855. The way they were made is kind of a hoot to imagine Strips of raw rubber were wrapped around penis shaped molds and then dunked into a chemical bath to cure the rubber there were contraceptive sponges both natural sea sponge and Manufactured these might be used with vinegar or boric acid as a spermicide Both cervical caps and diaphragms were widely available in Europe less so in the United States And as always you can thank the Puritans for bequeathing us our enduring legacy of shame and secrecy around the body sex and reproduction People find a way though. They always have for example when Roe v. Wade was overturned on June 24th, 2022 Many people expected the abortion rate in the US to plummet Those people bless their hearts Forgot to factor human nature into their calculations Because the abortion rate in this country didn't drop. In fact, it's actually increased about 16% in the last six years It's a complex equation because people's lives are complex and despite literally thousands of years of trying to legislate morality We've yet to succeed which makes Lysol's Gynecological campaign so very interesting and that leads us straight to something called the Comstock Act After serving in the Civil War this guy Anthony Comstock moved to New York City and found work as a salesman He was a devoutly Christian and thoroughly appalled by what he perceived as a city absolutely crawling with degeneracy pornography and rampant prostitution By the late 1860s Comstock was feeding the police tips and info to facilitate raids on brothels and sex workers As far as he was concerned Easily available birth control was an invitation to lewdness and promiscuity So he shifted his focus to the contraceptive industry He founded the New York Society for the Suppression of Vice and then in 1872 Mr. Comstock went to Washington to speak to Congress. He brought with him the anti-obscenity bill. He'd written himself complete with a ban on all contraception Congress passed the Comstock Act in 1873 that new statute declared contraceptives to be both obscene and illicit and a federal offense to sell or mail across state lines Couple dozen states jumped in to make Comstock laws of their very own and none was more restrictive than the state of Connecticut Even married couples in the nutmeg state could be arrested for using birth control in the privacy of their own homes They risked a sentence of one year in prison if they got caught It is so creepy and weird and nuts and gross The way the American government intrudes on the privacy of its citizens on their bodily autonomy Like if the US government was a dude at a bar You'd cover your drink give out a fake phone number and make sure it didn't follow you home Anyway people found ways around the laws and One of those ways was Lysol. Sue was furious at Tom for the way he'd been treating her, but she was really to blame She should have done better for she was no stranger to feminine hygiene It was just that she had become neglectful Her doctor straightened her out. It's foolish to risk your marriage happiness by being careless about feminine hygiene Even once use Lysol disinfectant for douching always When you don't know what's really being said It's easy to judge sue for maybe skipping a shower or three like girl soap and water will make you melt But then you realize that what sue and her doctor and that bottle of Lysol are really up to is Preventing or ending an unwanted pregnancy

17:15

After all that unwanted pregnancy was all her fault, wasn't it? Heavenly is the word for Sue and Tom's home life now. Oh, yeah, why sue immediately took her doctor's advice Always she uses Lysol for douching knows for herself how thoroughly this proven germ killer cleanses yet How gently Lysol is far more dependable than salt soda or other homemade solutions What's more? It's easy to use and Economical too. Hey those germs that Lysol was cleansing for sue weren't germs at all The word germ was code for sperm Lysol's great spreading power means it reaches deeply into folds and crevices to search out germs proven germ killer Uniform strength made under licensed laboratory control far more dependable than home solutions Hey notice the word dependable neither Massengill or Summer's Eve ever leaned on that one Why would they those brands were selling?

18:24

freshness not DIY pregnancy termination Lysol douching solution is non-irritating not harmful to vaginal tissues More women use Lysol for feminine hygiene than any other method This Was no isolated practice Not only was douching the most common form of birth control right up until 1960 when the FDA approved the pill The top feminine hygiene product in the United States for those decades was Lysol And here's the thing about that the makers of Lysol didn't even bother to modify their formula until 1952 for more than half a century Women were douching with creasles crude caustic and in high enough concentrations lethal which explains why by 1911 Doctors had found at least five cases where women had died as a result of uterine irrigation with Lysol five deaths Lysol's parent company just need it 41 or so years to remove the creasles My favorite part about this is how we never learn anything We keep trusting corporations to do the right thing when their only definition of the right thing is increased value for their shareholders Anyhow, lavishing your lady parts with Lysol really took off in the 30s. Thanks in large part to the Great Depression Suddenly people were focused on keeping their family small So they could you know feed and shelter them an unwanted pregnancy Another mouth to feed and options to prevent were limited and not so reliable the burden of managing this Feminine hygiene situation fell to women because of course it did it always has please Dave Don't let me be locked out by you Lysol invested what had to be a small fortune in their print advertising a man marries a woman because he loves her So instead of blaming him if married love begins to cool. She should question herself Is she truly trying to keep her husband and herself eager happy married lovers?

20:38

The women and men featured in these ads were young and attractive Marriage was presented as something exciting and romantic There are no signs of children. No evidence of aprons or other domestic tools The vibe is childless by choice One of the most effective ways to safeguard your dainty feminine allure is by practicing complete feminine hygiene as provided by vaginal douches with a scientifically correct Preparation like Lysol so easy a way to banish the misgivings that often keep married lovers apart the words complete and The ads hint it offered more than a cosmetic solution to a lady's most intimate concerns Lysol was being sold as a medical product Even if no one dared call it that to its face Lysol has amazing proven power to kill germ life on contact Truly cleanses the vaginal canal even in the presence of mucus matter Thus Lysol acts in a way that makeshift like soap salt or soda never can Do you see it now? Have you used your Lysol spray today with three kids?

21:55

I use it every day in order to persuade women to irrigate their reproductive tracts with a caustic household disinfectant The makers of Lysol had to first remind those women whose fault everything from a menstrual cramp squalling newborn actually was It was all her fault a love quiz for married folks only Why does she spend her nights alone if you're wondering why no one ever got hurt Douching with Lysol never complained never sued the company in 1935 one woman did the company defended itself by arguing that the burns the woman incurred Could only have been triggered by an allergy to Lysol the company Lenin think was not under a duty to Foresee that particular individual would have an allergy just a few years later in 1941 Lenin think would bat away another lawsuit this one a case of vaginal scouting by blaming the government It's not us. They said it's not Lysol Blame the FDA for their weak regulations because we labeled the package in accordance with FDA requirements So if your hoo-ha got torched, sorry sounds like a you problem This is the part where a certain kind of person goes well You can't blame the makers of Lysol for people being stupid It's not Lysol's fault that folks don't have the common sense to not drink household cleaners or douche with them here's the thing that would be an absolutely reasonable position to take if Lysol had stuck to advertising itself as something good for mopping floors and cleaning toilets Instead the company took out full-page newspaper ads featuring no-nonsense lady gynecologists from Europe Smart thinking women entrust their health only to doctor recommended Lysol disinfectant douches Even a hundred years ago American women saw their European counterparts as more sophisticated We're worldly more open-minded about everything from fashion to romance To the mysteries of the female body It amazes me as a gynecologist in these modern days to hear women confess their carelessness their lack of Positive information in the so vital matter of feminine hygiene They take almost anybody's word my neighbors and afternoon bridge partners for the correct technique the correct technique Surely in this question of correct marriage hygiene The modern woman should accept only the facts of scientific research and medical experience The woman who does demand such facts uses Lysol faithfully in her ritual of personal antisepsis So just how medically effective was Lysol in terms of marital hygiene?

24:54

Considering it was the most widely used form of contraception for literal decades. Surely it must have worked, right? Wrong and they knew it. They knew it as early as 1933 because the study was done Turned out that half or more of the women who used Lysol as a contraceptive Still got pregnant as for the half who didn't it wasn't clear that Lysol played any role whatsoever When it comes to raking in a profit though, why let the truth get in the way of a sale?

25:27

Lysol hedged its bets in all directions. They even recruited a prominent obstetrician named. Dr Joseph Dali to declare that Lysol had a place in the delivery room, too Lysol will reduce the amount of infectious matter carried into the uterus during birth That's how determined Lysol was to get into and stay in a woman's business Also, if it seems like folks back in the day thought a woman's reproductive tract was the equivalent of a back-channel bayou swamp Yeah, you got that, right? That is definitely the vibe fastidiously well-groomed Obviously sure of herself in every detail She is a woman whose habits of cleanliness include a knowledge of feminine hygiene This intimate phase of every woman's toilette is too often neglected through lack of knowledge of the daintiness Self-assurance and poise it brings every woman should know the facts about feminine hygiene So much of beauty charm and self-confidence is lost to the woman who remains ignorant of these facts So vital to her well-being now the even dirtier secret behind Lysol sparkling clean image Was the use of Lysol as an abortifacient in 1956 an article appeared in the medical journal obstetrics and gynecology detailing four cases of women who were hospitalized in Extreme distress following what were described as quote criminal abortions one of the women died Doctors stated that the method employed with Lysol pumped into their wombs The first victim was 32 years old and was brought to the hospital by her husband She was in the midst of an obvious medical crisis Her temperature was a hundred and four degrees and her urine was port wine colored and contained extremely high levels of albumin Indicating that her kidneys were shutting down Her husband eventually confessed that they had gone to a doctor for an abortion two days earlier four hours after admission The woman became agitated. She was put in restraints and sedated two hours after that She began to breathe in the deep and ragged manner of the dying an autopsy revealed Massive necrosis of her kidneys and liver the second victim 28 years old had been a patient of that very same doctor She was admitted with uncontrolled vaginal bleeding two days earlier a substance had been injected into her womb She was given a blood transfusion and antibiotics doctors performed a dilation and Curettage removing Necrotic tissue that had a strong smell of phenol then a main ingredient in Lysol She survived the third patient 35 years old had been bleeding for weeks before seeking medical help She told physicians that her doctor had given her a prescription for medicine, but she denied having an abortion She was given a blood transfusion and antibiotics But did not improve her pelvic discharge smelled strongly of phenol She was given a D and C and a placenta was removed She was lucky to survive the fourth patient was just 18 years old Terrified cramping and bleeding and finally dragging herself to a hospital because she said her vagina was losing water Doctors suspected that the water was a sign of labor brought on by abortion shortly after being admitted She spontaneously aborted a four and a half month fetus Phenol was found in both the fetal and placental tissue the girl recovered the medical establishment insisted that as abortions went Lysol was an extremely rare choice and

29:37

Besides hadn't Lysol's parent company tweaked the formula to remove the creasles that were the cause of so much injury and death True enough. The formula was adjusted in 1952 40 years after Lin and Fink blithely ignored the recommendation made by the 1912 Council on pharmacy and chemistry of the American Medical Association ordering the company's not Advertise disinfectants germicides and antiseptics for application to the eye gastrointestinal tract or genitourinary tract This is just one example of how human beings benefit when we regulate the behavior of private industry Because Lin and Fink cheerfully harmed the public allowing grievous injury and death in the name of profit for four decades Everyone involved knew how caustic and dangerous Lysol would be when it was ingested injected or even applied to the body the American Medical Association knew back in 1912 But a recommendation is just that a suggestion no teeth. No power not even the hint of a threat It was basically a heads-up one that Lin and Fink simply ignored By the 1960s the facts were getting harder to sweep under the rug The body count was too high overall mortality for patients who had become septic from botched abortions and were admitted to a hospital was 11 to 22 percent but for those whose abortions had been induced with soap or Lysol the mortality rate was reportedly an Astounding 50 to 66 percent Which made it tricky for experts to continue claiming that injury from douching with Lysol was a rare occurrence and a Disastrous Lysol abortion even more rare. They tried Oh bless their hearts, but the truth has a way of surfacing Especially when the truth can be smelled right there on the table mixed up in all that blood This was a time remember when contraception was illegal an abortion was a crime and no one dared ask their doctor for a Lysol termination It was a thing that was whispered a little secret shared privately woman to woman to woman and with Lysol being readily available without a prescription and an advertising campaign designed to promise both Efficacy and safety in the privacy of a woman's own home Who even needed a doctor?

32:20

Well, unless things went terribly wrong as they often did in 1961 dr. Carl Finzer of Buffalo, New York published a paper in the Canadian Medical Association journal titled lower nephron nephrosis due to concentrated Lysol vaginal douches He described two cases one of the women died the other survived in 1969 two physicians Robert H Bartlett and Clement Yahi Published a paper in New England Journal of Medicine They included five cases of women who had attempted abortions to with Lysol It's Foolish to risk your marriage happiness by being careless about feminine hygiene even once women back then your Ancestors your great and great great grandmothers may not have had access to the kinds of indoor plumbing We enjoy today, but they knew how to clean themselves They knew that sex didn't automatically make them smelly or gross just like it doesn't do that now the ads for Lysol were Insistent adamant that a woman had to preserve her daintiness by using Lysol every single time She engaged in sex every single time without fail without error Unless she was willing to pay the terrible price of disappointing her husband with her lax hygiene That's not how we generally talk about cleanliness. Is it that kind of rigid?

34:00

absolute prescriptive advice Every single time That's how we talk about birth control. It only works if you use it every single time and If you doubt that if you think that's reading a little too much into an ad for douching with America's favorite bathroom cleaner Lysol is here to make it a whole lot more clear. I just can't face it again Physicians know that fear is more than a mere emotion Clinical tests have proven that it acts on the system like a poison often causing serious physical irregularities Wow, even Massengill at its peak 90s springtime fresh unhinged Didn't deploy abject terror as a sales technique I just can't face it again many of the forebodings that upset the health of women are wholly Unnecessary they come from minor feminine ills and disturbances the result of improper or neglected marriage hygiene poisonous fear upsetting forebodings Simply use Lysol according to directions as Approved and prescribed by leading gynecologists throughout the world for more than 40 years for intimate personal cleanliness and peace of mind use Lysol Hello and welcome to history pod on the 23rd of June 1960 the United States Food and Drug Administration Approved enovid as the first combined oral contraceptive pill in the world oral contraceptives changed Everything it did take a few more decades for douching to fall out of favor and rightfully So all the reasons women were sold on douching eliminating odor scrubbing away menstrual blood preventing sexually transmitted diseases and pregnancy Well, it turns out douching isn't effective for any of that. In fact Douching is bad for your health. It can increase the risk of infection. It can cause complications in pregnancy The vaginal ecosystem doesn't need harsh chemicals stripping away all that good healthy bacteria It doesn't need to be disinfected or purified or purged Girl, your body's factory settings are the very definition of springtime fresh What they're selling you over in the feminine products aisle of the drugstore is Bullshit pointed directly at your insecurities and aiming for your wallet following the release of the pill Lysol quietly drifted out of the feminine hygiene arena and has since kept to its proper place in hospitals bathrooms kitchens and the festering laundry piles of teenage boys But the idea of using a household disinfectant as a medicine did make a brief comeback in 2020 the kovat pandemic It was floated by no less a personage than the president of these United States Who wondered aloud if perhaps we might consider injecting a disinfectant into our bodies to combat the virus?

37:20

this suggestion was loudly greeted with cries of disbelief and accusations of idiocy, which was absolutely the correct response, but Let's turn the lens ever so slightly and let's see that suggestion from a different perspective Not to defend it but to understand that it didn't come out of left field Let's look at it from the historical perspective our elected officials tend to be older like Much older as in 30% of Congress and 50% of the Senate are over age 65 many significantly, so example Congressman Chuck Grassley age 92 born 1934 that man was in his mid-20s Before the practice of douching with Lysol began fading away So when you think of it that way the past really isn't that far behind us, is it?

38:19

It's living memory for many So stretching both credibility and sanity to the breaking point to get there Is it possible that suggesting that we imbibe Lysol? Makes some kind of crazy sense to folks who grew up with a bottle of Lysol tucked away in the bathroom cupboard a bottle that wasn't meant for cleaning the tub and That is the nicest most polite and generous frame We can put around the whole whack idea of injecting Lysol to fight COVID cause and let's say it once again with feeling Lysol ain't any kind of medicine not for anybody not for any reason But damn does it get the job done on a nasty bathroom You Next time on true weird stuff Are you a leg man or a breast man?

39:19

Are you attracted by a person's dazzling smile or are you a liar who says what counts is? What's on the inside because let's face it beauty and beauty standards are a real thing and once upon a time They had whole beauty competitions for a specific body part Your beautiful ankle on the next true weird stuff our voice talents on this episode were Sam Moore Charly King Erin Cox Kary "Doc" Bowser and Don Morgan Sure, I never thought I'd be talking to you about some of the things But Let me just say that And I you pointed this out this was happening not all that long ago really and the idea that Because there were so many things that weren't talked about openly like they are now, which I think is a good thing I do know there there was a lot of Mystery around some of this and what it would do and what it actually did and I did not know this story At all. I had no idea. This is something that was done with the product of Lysol Of all things right? Let's all and and it was when you if you don't If you don't know if you just if your eye just falls on one of these ads you go Why are they selling that that way?

40:52

But they couldn't they couldn't say the word Contraceptive they weren't allowed to use the phrase birth control. You certainly couldn't talk openly about terminating and unwanted pregnancy but that's what this was and So many light there was for many many years There would be these um cycles where there'd be multiple Lysol suicides But and then there'd be some copycat Lysol suicides and then it would die down again And then it would start up again coast to coast and everywhere in between so that it was it was a weird chapter in medical history and A weird chapter in Lysol's history But the simple truth is is that everybody knew the makers of Lysol knew how caustic the product was Everybody knew and we just kept we just kept doing it. Anyway, um, let me ask you this question because okay, so they were They were kind of getting some sort of Tacit support to the idea that this was a contraceptive, right?

41:53

Was this the idea of the company or was this the idea of ad executives? It's going hey, you know, we've got an idea here Well, um the advertising industry wasn't really born in this country until right around when the pill was Invented. Okay. So the the there we didn't have like a Madison Avenue advertising industry in 19, you know This was um How this happened really really is connected to?

42:27

That world war one the cholera epidemic in Germany Because Lysol Lysol was effective as a medical disinfectant But they they just kind of Extrapolated that if it worked to kill the germs on the floor, it would work to kill other things including sperm So it it kind of crept up and and and I'll say in defense of Lennon Fink Although that company and their position is indefensible, you know here they are they've made this product for hospitals that um has really taken off thanks to You know its ability to hold back this cholera epidemic in Germany That they they begin realizing that this thing may have other broad uses in terms of cleanliness So they like they didn't set out to invent a caustic toilet cleaner that could double as an abortifacient it just sort of evolved in that direction and There were there were fewer rules and regs back then and people People, you know would try something or a doctor might suggest something A company might advertise something in this very coded way and there was no there were no safeguards There was nobody to stop any of this from happening and you know word-of-mouth One woman's doctor recommended it and she told a friend who told a friend but it it wasn't a back alley Behind-the-scenes thing as you now realize they were buying front-page ads in newspapers around the country For Sue and Tom and their troubled marriage because Sue was lax on her hygiene so the abortion part of this was this something that Somebody kind of came up with and then this was a whispered thing that was done I mean, well, it was the kind of net it was the sort of natural next step so when we're talking about hygiene and how Lysol gets into folds and crevices and kills the germs in your vaginal canal The germs were sperm the Lysol was getting up there and annihilating the sperm So that was the it was not effective by the way as you now know, right like it was not effective But that was the advertising message that this will clean Your marital hygiene your husband won't have to be disappointed in you for getting pregnant as though he had nothing to do with it But this will be a way for you to disinfect those germs and keep that You know spring springtime love going in your marriage right by extension if it could prevent if it could kill the sperm and Prevent the pregnancy perhaps it might also work after the pregnancy has happened and because women were doing this at home or in Doctors offices with doctors who practiced you uterine irrigation with Lysol Not all of them ended up hospitalized not all of them ended up injured and we're not really even sure what the exact correct number would be because in order to make it into that data set you had to go to the hospital and Back then as now you might be hesitant to do that, especially if you have participated in an illegal Activity or procedure, right? Yeah, I understand that So we're kind of obsessed with Cleanliness in this country a little bit. Oh, yeah And so let me ask you about the whole period of time when there was this massing gale because I can remember those ads and I mean, I just thought it was a fact of life and that this was safe and everything else Did they not do any testing I guess is the question and that's sort of a rhetorical question You would think that they did to realize that this was more dangerous than helpful as a product yeah, they really didn't not so much and um, this is a whole like we could have a whole conversation about

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the Women's health and the understanding of female anatomy Most of our medicine most most of our medicine is based on the male body the male anatomy So like let me give you a great example On on the ovary there's this there's a section of the ovary It's like a little it looks like a little apostrophe if you can picture it I don't know so picture the ovary So picture like a little egg and then an apostrophe coming off the top of the egg in sort of a jaunty fashion When when when the medical establishment Which and if you're a man like don't be so defensive grow up Jimmy Okay, we're going to talk about how the medical establishment at the time So hyper male-dominated, I mean, you know, thank God for Marie Curie, but come on The medical establishment studied the female ovary and they looked at that little tail that little apostrophe and they thought well that doesn't do anything That's vestigial. It's irrelevant. And so they they removed it from the anatomical drawings and the textbooks Even though it was on the woman's by it's on your body like it's part of your ovary, but it's not in the okay Feel like not not putting nipples on men because well they yeah, they're not going to lack So now and for decades centuries, right when we look at the female at Illustrations of the female medical or female reproductive tract and medical textbooks We see the ovaries minus their little tails and we've just discovered now that that little apostrophe Is a pote it has a it plays a potent role in hormones and signaling and Basically, it wasn't useless and it shouldn't have been deleted. It's an important part of the entire complex reproductive system in women's bodies and just one staggering example of You know what happens when we base an entire body of knowledge on 50% of the population So if you're a dude and that offended you That's on you buddy don't come to me with that looking for an apology So now, you know now we have to we have to wrestle with the fact that there's so much that we don't know because we never asked douching Massengill summer's Eve, you know douching and especially Lysol douching for generations douching was considered Just like a baseline part of feminine hygiene But your vaginal canal is populated with all sorts of flora healthy bacteria that Colonized and that are a critical part of your whole biome of your well-being and douching just strips that Like girl, you don't need to do that. Yeah, and you don't smell take a shower. You're good You're fine Like you're we have been sold and this is the Puritans and it goes back to the Middle Ages and the Catholic Church We've been sold this idea that women's bodies are corrupted and and dirty and That menstruation makes us dirty when in fact Menstrual blood is a bonanza of stem cells and we treat it like it's some filthy shameful thing when we should have been researching that and using that for For no doubt some extraordinary Medical advancements that maybe we'll get to and maybe we won't who can say But it's all been it's all been bullshit It's all been a lie Designed to make you feel insecure about yourself and to separate you from your money And the reason you don't see those springtime fresh mother-daughter walking through the wildflower fields douche commercials anymore is Because the truth is out there. Yeah, you can still buy it You can still probably I mean I haven't looked for it, but you can go buy some douche at the drugstore Don't recommend it unless your doctor has a very specific reason for why you need to be stripping your body of its natural Flora, so it's it turns out that

50:40

douching with Lysol is the tip of a very complicated and Tangled up iceberg, isn't it? Mm. It is So I'm gonna ask you a question and at poor max. I warned him ahead of time and Aaron Erin Cox who is just like our she's just like, you know, the very the very definition of a good, Minnesota girl I was like you and Aaron are gonna go to town on this one. I don't know that you're ready for it poor max, but When you would visit your grandparents as a kid Was there not like a red rubber bag and nozzle and bottle Lysol in that bathroom?

51:20

And Wasn't that grandma live with us Wasn't that red rubber bag draped over the shower bar just like a fixture sometimes. Yes So yeah, I do remember that. Mm-hmm my great-grandmother Who came to this country as a young bride like probably maybe that you know There who can find the documents the original birth certificates She was probably about 20 years old when she came to the United States. And so she never really Never really got a whole lot of English. So it was a mixture of English and Italian. She had one of those red rubber bags and nozzles and The Lysol in the bathroom and as a kid, I never I didn't know what anything was I knew that the red thing was grown-up business And I guess I just assumed the Lysol was you know cleaning product But she would have been in the absolute target to be Have this product marketed to her and as a devout Roman Catholic from the old country. There's not gonna be any contraception. Mm-hmm ever ever No, and the end of and the pill Didn't come along until late 50s early 60s. Yeah somewhere in there 1960 I found and you heard it in the episode I found like the you know, the night that it was announced on all the nightly network news broadcasts you know the invention of the the pill and You know, this is one of those the Lysol is a douche Lysol is a contraception or as a contraceptive or abortifacient Boy, is this ever a controversial conversation even be having because as soon as you say the word abortion You know in the search engines find it here here come. Yeah, here come the folks But this is this is what happened in in our country this is part of our medical history part of our cultural history and We you know, we have to we have to talk about it We have to be able to say these things out loud because we are coming back into a period There's some talk much talk actually of Making contraception illegal again And I know you're gonna say well could never happen my brother Look at how many things could never happen that are currently happening Okay, the only reason I say that it couldn't is because the drug companies have such a strong lobby That's the only reason there's so much there's so much money to be made with it. I'm not saying it for any moral reason I'm just saying that's the only thing It's about yeah, so that that wouldn't happen Industry making profit when that's the only thing protecting us from insanity boy. That's a thin shield But you know that people are gonna have sex. You're not gonna stop that. You're not gonna legislate that away There were kind the Egyptians had some form of condom that was made with Something way back at the time. So the idea of that the idea of birth control certainly is not a new idea Did you not find it interesting and this is this is data go look it up That the rise the increase in the abortion rate since Roe v. Wade was overturned We this is a historical pattern that we've seen before Mmm, if you have good pattern recognition, you're not even a little bit surprised by this. You've seen this before This any time we try to legislate human behavior and morality we we Come upon these enormous unbridgeable gulfs Between what we say people should do and what people actually do well They tried to do that with drinking too back in the 19 1919 is when that the Volstead was was passed. Yeah, right. They tried to legislate that and

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You know people are gonna drink people are gonna have sex Those are things that are gonna happen that that Comstock Act is oh my god insane. It's just not a stock crazy People are gonna drink and have sex and smoke and eat unhealthy foods and costs but they're also going to be good and kind and decent and self-sacrificing because that's the mystery and the conundrum of being a human being is that you're all of those things all at once all the time and No laws have ever succeeded You cannot point to a single law that has succeeded in making people Behave the way you think they should behave. Mm-hmm Because because we're you know, we're mammals we're animals the thing with the thing about the Lysol douche story It's so many there are so many factors inside this that allowed this to happen. So we have a hard time Because we were born in a world of germ theory DNA under we understand the difference between a virus and a bacterial infection or we're supposed to like you don't take antibiotics for the flu because the flu is a virus and You know antibiotics don't attack a virus like think of all the things you just take for granted that you know Mm-hmm all the things that you just take for granted But at the beginning of the Lysol as feminine hygiene Era, we didn't know about any of it. We didn't know about germs. We didn't know about bacteria We didn't have antibiotics. We were not clear on virals and we didn't have antiviral on viruses and we didn't have antivirals we knew how babies were made, but we were sort of unclear as to What we could shoot up a woman's hoo-ha to prevent that there's also another tendency in this I don't know if it's in this country or the other countries This is the only country I'm living in but there's the idea that there's going to be a magic bullet that there's going to be one magical potion that's going to Take care of everything and and I see this with with Lysol They went well look at all the good stuff that it's done as far as the spread of bacteria With all this so it must be for this this this and this Without any thought of we do that with an a but they did that with antibiotics when penicillin first came out I mean the doctors were given penicillin to everybody and then all of a sudden they went Oh, that's not the best thing to do because the the viral strains were getting resistant to it because so much was prescribed Well, we used to work with a guy Well, we worked with one guy that thought there was a pill for everything and then we also at the same time worked with a guy who Was constantly getting a z-pack for whatever ailed him remember that I remember that and I would say to this guy hey, you know, you don't need a z-pack for a cold a cold is a virus and The z-pack is an antibiotic and he's like can't hurt Well, it can though because you're coming your team. This is how antibiotic resistance happens Exactly. So so we had the one guy that you know if his eye twitched he went to his doctor and got and and his dog he had a doctor like on the Sopranos or some shit because this doctor would just write a prescription for whatever he asked for so he took it as a pack and the other one was like I Feel kind of bored with life and also frustrated. Is there a pill I can take for that like no You have to do the work of living Sometimes So I have a personal story with Lysol that has nothing to do with douches or the rest of this Tell me you oh, you didn't drink this. No, I did not drink it. No, I will tell you So my brother teased me all the time as a kid and he just oh So he's a Boy Scout and I took his sleeping bag and I sprayed it with Lysol Everywhere and he hated the smell of it. And so when he went out to camp he had to And that was me getting back at him so when I think of Lysol I don't think arrest this stuff That's what I think of how I got my brother back with that

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really Medicine smell. Yeah smell So now I want you to be a doctor in an emergency room and a woman is bleeding out and it reeks of Lysol Her blood reeks of Lysol Because that's that's a thing, right? That's a thing that's documented in the Medicare These women you their blood reeked of phenols, which is what makes Lysol have its distinctive smell like what a crazy time Buy it I Want you to think about some of the products that are advertised to you health and wellness Products and supplements that are advertised to you right now when your newsfeed And the promises these products make yeah, and and some of them you look at them and you go Well, I'm pretty a hundred percent sure that's not real You know, how could weight loss tea for example, which the Kardashians were hawking a weight You know a tea that would make you lose weight And yeah, if it's if it's got a strong laxative in it, you don't lose a little bit. I I have a I have a problem with anyone who is Marketing something that is basically snake oil to really desperate people I have a particular moral problem with that whether it's weight loss or alcoholism or smoking or any one of these things That really can't help you. I always feel like you really have no soul because you know that that's not You know, you know that that's really not going to help that person I mean you're making your money based on BS and I'm a sucker So like I've you know, I'm like, well that sounds like it might help Let me try that because I have like insane I should live in a different place because I'm allergic to everything where I live and so all year round, you know I'm like I have hay fever 12 years out of 12. Yeah, I've worked with you for years You you you always are sneezing and wheezing I'm caught I'm allergic to everything include all the trees all the grasses. I'm allergic to horses and sagebrush I am allergic to this planet. So If you if you set if you put an ad on my feed about like something that's going to help my immune system I recently fell for Oregano oil which I took for 60 days and saw no difference at all. I mean, I'll try it, you know oregano oil It's not gonna hurt me, you know, not at all But we are you know, we we are suckers for the quick fix the easy cure the promise of you know restored Pick one pick them all youth figure vitality potency And that's just sort of that's just sort of baked into American culture and in other parts of the world as well, you know The male version of this insecurity. Do you remember about 20 years ago when they were they were sending male enhancements?

1:02:36

And they made every man feel like yeah, there's something wrong with you You got the body you got but and so they fed into that insecurity with that You know, it's crazy And you you have to like if there's a crit it this comes in waves in the early 2000s, you know testosterone supplementation was big and we know because we Are day job, you know, we work in commercial radio in the advertising business. So we see what comes across We know what's being sold, right?

1:03:12

So there was this whole like testosterone supplementation thing then it kind of went away for a while It's back in a big way now now, there's a lot to be said for that, but it's not For everybody and there are consequences and side effects and some risks associated with Testosterone supplementation and you know, maybe best-case scenario you get some cystic acne on your jawline worst-case scenario Some other things happen because your body is a system and it's um, oh fearful and wondrously made and delicately calibrated system, so, you know, we when we're douching with Lysol and Drinking diet teas and injecting testosterone You know, we we have to not be surprised when there are consequences to that Well, I Say we don't know you can you can order stuff online and never see a doctor I mean, that's how easy it is to get and they don't know and it may be nothing and it does is effective with that But we still don't know what the long term is because I don't think they've done long-term studies with this Well, we haven't had them. We haven't had enough time to do a long-term study and we may you know It's interesting because some of the data on these GLP ones is so interesting People that people go on them and they're like, I don't drink or do drugs or gamble anymore. Mm-hmm like wow Oh, oh and I lost weight right and then other people go on them and they end up, you know constantly nauseous and Dehydrated and you know hospitalized and stuff Those are the two sort of extremes and then in the middle or folks that are finding that they're The food noise is quiet at their a1c stabilizes their diabetes We know we used to work with a woman who was diabetic until she wasn't it's right and she's not diabetic anymore That's kind of miraculous, you know for type 2 diabetes But to your point, we don't know we really don't know We're fine. We're experimenting in real time on real people. We we would like to think We would like to think that we're so evolved that we would not sell a product that So obviously not what it was intended for like selling Lysol as a douche We'd like to think that we're that evolved, but I I'm not sure that we are We're not really We're we're so young. Oh my god. We're a young species, but we're a young country and You you just you literally glance over your shoulder and you're like what the hell Because all of this stuff is in living memory and I was trying very very hard to find a way to make sense of Something that seemed insane to me at the time. What do you mean? I should inject Clorox or Lysol into my body. Wait, why?

1:06:18

and and I desperately wanted to find a way to like How could a person think that is there any? rational basis for that and um, I Think you have to ask yourself if people in their 80s and 90s You know didn't grow up in a world where that was Madison and so maybe He as you say this really was not all that long ago I Mean, my mom was born in 19. She was born in the 40s 1942 so the Lysol thing was still going until 1960 mm-hmm so Yeah, she she definitely has the living memory of Lysol in the bathroom And you and you can you can rest assured that somebody got the information who was desperate for an abortion that did it Long after we knew that this was bad because they were desperate And a lot of you know, you could you could try You could try inducing an abortion at home with Lysol if you irrigated enough of it, and I think I suspect that that's how That's how a lot of those injuries and deaths went down was at home in the bathroom, but that kind of stuff is harder to tease out because You know, it doesn't get logged But I I am NOT I am NOT defending anyone who believes we should inject Lysol do not hear it that way But sometimes somebody a public figure or your dad will say something that is so insane That you go where in the world did you get a notion like that?

1:08:11

And I think there's some fun in going down the rabbit hole to see where the notion came from and I'll be damned if there isn't historical evidence for that notion Yep Which is in some ways, um more troubling than if it were just batshit crazy You know if a person just says something crazy you go. Well, that's crazy But what if a person says something crazy you go? Oh that went on for 60 years I'm absolutely with you on that So, thank you my love My hubs just brought me some coffee in my Colorado state mom mug So yeah, I'm not I'm not letting anybody off the hook. I'm just saying that part of the fun of Climbing into the Wayback Machine, which is what we do here. Part of the fun is connecting the dots Where you go, well, this is crazy and Oh, that's where it comes from Don't you find that to be the most like little fun Easter egg ever when you when you make that connection?

1:09:22

Well, and also you brought up something else that I think it's really important for people to understand Is that you can have all kinds of regulations and everything else? But drug companies all kinds of companies have a certain level of risk they're willing to assume for people who have Negative consequences even death for using their products. Yeah, I can I can tell you this from having gone through a situation with a medication that I took and And You know a Class action lawsuit that was brought because of that they assume a certain amount of risk with that and so I imagine that that company just said well this will assume this risk because My god, the stockholders are home happy and we're making so much money on this Max you were Unfortunately The person that the TV commercial side effect Monologue applied to right but the thing is like we when we take these we all see the TV commercials Possible side effects include depression suicidal ideation explosive diarrhea hives rash fever risk of infection Call your doctor if the following, you know, we listen to that, but we don't right right because here's what we say in our heads We go I Understand that there is the risk but statistically speaking it probably won't happen to me So it's worth the gamble to get the benefits of the medication that was that that was where you were when your doctor prescribed that that's right and You took it and I'll be damned if you weren't the person that it all applied to right and it was Y'all it was um, it didn't ruin Max's life clearly But it changed Max's life forever has changed it forever. Yeah, it's never it's never it's going to be just it I'm gonna say what it is because I never have said anything about this mostly because First of all, I'm private and the other part of it is everybody's gonna come at me and go This is what you need to do and trust me. I've done everything but is a minor neurological problem I had as a result of taking this medication and They really don't know it the good news is on my condition has not worsened over the last 20 years, but mmm, I Can tell you that it's very frustrating when you're dealing when you are a little guy and you're dealing with all of that Because they're ready for you and they're gonna squash you like a bug And they did and they did and they did and the thing is like Max says it's a minor neurological thing It's a minor neurological thing that has had a major impact on your life It has and I've been able to carry on my life and I've learned to live with the kind of symptoms that I have like vertigo and shaking and balance problems and all that other stuff and I've been able to Say, alright fine. I accept that this is gonna happen every once in a while. I saw a neurologist When I was in Chicago in one day, I saw a one neurologist and I saw a bunch up there She said to me and she was apparently of a neurologist of some renown she said well This is a minor problem. You're gonna have to live with and I told her I said it's minor because it's not happening to you And I remember she was writing and she stopped and she looked up and she said fair enough yeah, I mean I I I know I know what these minor this minor thing has done to your life and and You know, we were We hate rules and regulations and we think that you know, the government is too heavy-handed, but Private industry cannot be trusted to have your best interest at heart because private industries top priority is not your best interest. It's Constantly expanding profits and value for shareholders now when you're a shareholder experiencing that expansion of value

1:13:31

Yee-haw Everybody's happy about their 401k But you you have to remember that when we chase shareholder value and expand to profits we can sometimes lose sight of ethics and and The law right and you have companies max is right. There are calculations personal injury law firms can tell you this There are calculations This product carries some level of risk Point two percent of the population will go blind Point two percent doesn't sound like a lot until it's you. That's right so now in the absence of regulatory oversight Those those risks climb from point two percent to considerably higher. I mean doctors knew in 1912 they knew that douching with Lysol It would kill you could kill you and Yet There wasn't any Incentive to stop because it was just a damn profitable So which world do you want to live in?

1:14:38

Do you want to live in an unfettered free market where you takes your chances and you hopes for the best or do you want? some Rational oversight and I use the word rational here. And yeah, I'm rational oversight I think that's the way to say that because you have to have some kind of a balance in there with that but at the same time understand that There these big companies drug companies All of them are assuming a certain level of risk and are prepared financially for that because their profits are so high Well, I mean, I think that historically speaking you should be suspicious of doctors Except except to me. I got I got I got nothing out of this just so you know Yeah, no, you got nothing. There was no there was no here. Here's what max got. Oh, well too bad So sad sucks to be you that was what max got for being a person harmed by a medication That was yanked off the market about a minute after it and understand that I had to go Remember counting up in that first year that I saw like 21 different doctors in different parts of the medical community with different specialties to be able to sort that problem out and spent thousands and thousands and Thousands of dollars to try to get figured out What it was that was going on and the bottom line on it is they don't know No, they don't know a treatment they don't know Prognosis they don't know any of those things but all of this goes back to that medication that I took and that is the point it started and then the Progression stopped when I got off the medication. So you tell me whether it was the medication or not It's a hell of a coincidence. Mmm, right and and then the thing about So, you know, we take our chances right and we we play the odds We do that. We play the math game that it probably won't be me. This could happen, but probably won't happen right until it does and And then what then you know, there's this human cost so a lot of people died a lot of people were Terribly harmed by the use of Lysol as a hygiene product, right? Yeah And was that an acceptable level of risk for the company Lennon Fink and you have to look at and go Well, apparently yeah, apparently it was it was because because this continued unabated Until the pill came along now. I have to also remind you because I think that It should be clear where Lysol's parent company needs to be held accountable that they knew in the early 1900s How caustic the creasles were in Lysol, but they didn't change the formula till 1952 So they advertised it for 40 some years As something that you should you know irrigate your vaginal canal with Knowing how caustic it was Knowing how dangerous it was so for anyone and there's always that one in the room. That's like well I think you're holding this company to a standard blah blah blah they Knew yeah, they knew they knew and they proceeded because Changing the formula. I guess they thought well, there's a risk. It's working. Why would we mess with success and you know?

1:18:16

What were they going to change it to perhaps they couldn't they had no alternative for the Creasles at the time that they could replace it with and that didn't that didn't develop until the 50s But the bottom line is they perpetrated harm and death and they knew By the way the company that owns it now. It's not that the company that owned it back then just You know oh, yeah, it's changed. I mean I wasn't about to do an exhaustive history. No I was gonna say no, but I just want to say that it's you know if Don't you know don't boycott Lysol. Do you clean your bathroom now? No? No it'll do a hell of a job on your tub um Because I have to you know you got to pick and choose and I'll put you know I'll put every detail under the Sun into one of these episodes, but I was like you know what I'm not gonna This isn't about the company Lysol. I probably should have been fair and said that they were under new ownership But the formula changed in 1952 Hopefully you're not drinking or douching with it now But if you did it would be a really stupid idea, but it's not as caustic as it as it once was yeah So and I think um in addition to I would like a Trophy and a snosage are you ready max because in addition to being incredibly?

1:19:39

Generous in analyzing why you would tell people to inject bleach And you know me do you not think that that was like a real act of service and sacrifice to be as Generous and kind as I was about that Second I have managed to restrain myself from my raw unbridled outrage at what has been done to women and women's health since the beginning of time I Feel like I've where's I'm gonna sit up there my paws. Give me a small you you listen. I absolutely Understand what you're saying I don't know it from from being the Position of being a woman, but I certainly understand it And I think that I probably understand it more now than I did even ten years ago You know I think that is probably true And I don't know why that would be because you're not that you're never you were never one of those guys that Struggled no if I still is a woman a person sure it was it was more So certain things are talked about that weren't talked about before So it was more from it, so it was like a lack of information more than anything It's not like I was trying to find the information I just didn't have the information and then I go I'd never thought about that for instance um I Don't worry about walking down a dark street. I'm six foot two. I'm over 200 pounds. I'm a big guy So I don't usually worry too much about that. I never knew what it would be like to be five foot one 120 pounds I'm walking down a dark street at night, but the kind of fear and the you know justifiable fear that you would have from doing that even now so like my husband is very he's protective and Because mostly because he thinks that I don't pay enough attention, and I that's a fair criticism me I do kind of wander around the world like a pumpkin head at cartoon But in the summer when it was so so hot and so humid Like I I'm gonna walk. I'm gonna go for a walk at night, and he's like oh, I'm too tired tonight Well, I can just go because no you can't and and I know he's right I live in it in an urban area, and I really can't as a woman Go walking alone. I certainly can't walk through the trails. You know on the Greenway By myself day or night there have been Incidents and so yeah, it's when you when you're a woman and a girl you do move through the world differently You you move. I mean look at what we're facing with what's happening with Cornell University. Oh my god the horror of That and my nephew we my family has always been so proud because you know we trash we said we some trash We some trash with folks in prison So all kinds of and then my nephew goes to Cornell for graduate school like the proudest thing in our family tree and you know that the university basically is like You know some gang rape seven hours. Maybe write an essay We're gonna kick it under the carpet except now it's gonna be the downfall and the undoing Because secrets always the crime and then there's the cover a cover-up. Yeah, but to be a woman in this world is it is it?

1:23:04

It's a whole complex and Challenging dance of you know Who can I trust where am I safe? I got to watch my back at all times, but this business of women's health of Medications and procedures and devices being tested and calibrated on male bodies We are not you without a penis right there. We're different than you The penis is not the only thing the only point of difference here, so it is Infuriating The way women's health has been just yeeted off into the Sun And I you know what I would love I would love to say but that's changing But you know what things are going backward right now for how long and for how far I don't know But I can they're going backward Where women's health is concerned going backward where opportunities are concerned Am I am I insane and out of my mind with rage about that you betcha you bet I am which is why I demand my snossage for Being so cheerful and and compassionate and generous on you know on all this Because this podcast could have been titled get the fuck out of here Lysol douche But you know you don't learn if you're just mad You don't learn if you're just angry in order to learn something anger at least for me. I don't know how anger is for you Anger if I'm angry It consumes me like a fire, and I can't even think right so when you're really really angry all the time It's hard to learn stuff So I'm trying to work on let's not be quite so angry about these Injustices and insanities, let's see if we can Come to something and connect the dots with information And I do um if I could go back in time I Would go to my great-grandma, and I'd be like grandma No no The Lysol goes in the toilet not in your body But she you know she didn't know she didn't know just like your great-grandma. I didn't know no and Just like you know we all do the best we can in the in the times that we're given and we make the mistakes that we make and and I got to tell you of all the chapters of history to be repeating the Puritans was was not my pick and here we are So I guess we just have to wrap this one up by saying If it's strong enough For the ring in your toilet. It's too strong For your body any part of your body at your face Your foot yeah, just just remember Really should go without saying, but oh well. It doesn't though apparently it does not go without saying apparently So Next time on true weird stuff We're gonna pay a visit to that weird and it lasted longer than like so many of these weird moments Boy, they last longer than you think some of the stuff we uncover on true weird stuff. We're like well was that a weekend Oh, no, that was 30 years, okay?

1:26:27

We are slow to learn we're delightful little monkeys, but we are slow to learn Next week we're gonna take a look at when and where and why and how a woman's ankle was so darn sexy, and it's not as simple as um Well, you know back then women wore long dresses, and you didn't get it ever get a glimpse of any part of their body Some of that that idea that you know Oh the men of the Victorian age would lose their mind at the sight of a woman's ankle Some of that has been really exaggerated for comic effect But you can't get around the historical truth that once upon a time not so long ago in living memory Some beautiful young women lined up at an amusement park in New Jersey They were wearing short dresses and high heels and each one of them had an oversized pillowcase Over the top of her body with ragged eye holes cut out So that the judges could choose the best ankle without being distracted by the prettiest face whoo-hoo Now there's a Halloween costume for you whoo-hoo, and that's that's on the next true weird stuff. Oh, and oh Go visit our new website true word stuff calm. You're so excited. Thank you for listening. We love you. See you next time And if you listen to us on Apple podcasts hit the plus button in the top right corner And now it helps an independent podcast like ours to get discovered And we really appreciate it if you subscribe rate and review true weird stuff hit our website true weird Stuff calm for show notes and photos and videos when we have it and bonus content Everything true weird is waiting for you at true weird stuff calm and follow true weird stuff on Instagram True weird stuff is in Now! Media production Our executive producer is Anthony Garcia The show is written and hosted by me Sheri Lynch along with my deeply weird director Max Sweeten Our equally odd producer is Kary Bowser Additional production by the mysterious Stephen Call our digital witch and social media cult leader is Heather Furr original graphics by Kevin Nash original artworks by Olivia Axland true weird original music composed and performed by Jack Griffin and copyright 2026 Now! Media all rights reserved all wrongs remembered

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