Case file 141Conspiracies, Hoaxes & FraudsModern (1980–today)

Jeffrey Epstein, Vampire

A conspiracy theory casts Epstein as an immortal Andrew Jackson, then the hosts turn serious about what's actually in the Epstein files.

Feb 21, 20261h 30m
00:00 / 1:29:58
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In this episode

  • Dr. Daniel Jolley's three-ingredient recipe for building a conspiracy theory — and why this one checks every box
  • A Department of Justice press release announcing Epstein's death — dated a full day before he actually died
  • Roberto Grijalva: the anonymous 4chan post, the subpoenas that followed, and the memo that changed everything
  • Ghislaine Maxwell taught a crude Bear Stearns social climber which fork to use — and why the hosts refuse to call her a victim
  • A New Mexico ranch, the phrase "foreign girls," and the dig a state attorney general just won the right to order

“Once you see it, you can’t not see it.”

The story

Andrew Jackson never died. He just got a new name, a new address, and an entry-level job at Bear Stearns. That, at least, is the premise: the seventh president of the United States was in fact an immortal vampire who spent two centuries feeding on power and money before settling, sometime in the 1970s, into the identity of a Manhattan math teacher named Jeffrey Epstein. The evidence offered is the elongated face, the thick wavy hair, the hooded eyes, the deep philtrum, the mole tucked into a crease of the cheek — the exact engraving on the twenty-dollar bill, staring back at anyone who bothers to compare it to a photograph of Epstein. Once you see it, you can't not see it.

A vampire needs a résumé

The bit only works because the real conspiracy theory underneath it is already so far along. As of 2023, more than half of Americans surveyed said they did not believe Jeffrey Epstein killed himself in his Manhattan jail cell on August 10, 2019. According to sociologist Dr. Daniel Jolley, every durable conspiracy theory needs the same three ingredients: a powerful actor, an action, and a self-interested motive — and it sticks best when it's anchored to something real. Epstein supplies plenty of anchors. A Department of Justice press release announcing his death is dated August 9, 2019 — a full day before he actually died, explained away as "just a press template." An anonymous 4chan poster described guards moving Epstein in a wheelchair the night before, an unmarked van pulling up, no plate number recorded. Subpoenas later identified that poster as a Metropolitan Correctional Center employee named Roberto Grijalva, whose own memo, dated two days after the death, shows him relaying information about Epstein's housing status less than 24 hours before he was found unresponsive. None of it proves murder. All of it proves doubt is easy to grow.

Borrowing a face off the $20 bill

Layered onto that doubt is the vampire mythology itself, and it borrows Andrew Jackson's actual record rather than inventing one. As president, Jackson signed the Indian Removal Act, forcing the Choctaw and others onto the Trail of Tears, a march that killed more than 4,000 people. He built his fortune on enslaved labor and, in 1804, ran a Tennessee newspaper ad offering fifty dollars for the return of a runaway man and ten dollars extra for every hundred lashes delivered — up to three hundred dollars total, worth more than $8,000 today. He dismantled the Bank of the United States on a grudge and triggered the Panic of 1837. In the retelling, none of that cruelty went away when the vampire traded the presidency for a teaching post at the Dalton School; it just got quieter, better funded, and pointed at children instead of nations. The same appetite for leverage that once moved armies now moved money — and, for a while, the vampire is even credited with a side identity as Satoshi Nakamoto, inventor of an untraceable currency perfectly suited to something that can never let a paper trail catch up to it.

The weird part

Epstein's FedEx account stayed active for years after his alleged 2019 death, including a 2024 shipment of Gulfstream airplane parts sent to the address of one of his supposedly defunct businesses.

What's actually in the files

Underneath the vampire story sits a documented one. Jeffrey Epstein had no real credentials and no fortune of his own until he met Leslie Wexner, the billionaire behind Victoria's Secret, the Limited, and Justice, and somehow gained control of enormous sums of Wexner's money — whether through genuine financial talent or leverage over Wexner's own well-documented appetites is exactly the fork the theory hangs on. Ghislaine Maxwell, daughter of the pedophile publisher Robert Maxwell, is described not as anyone's victim but as Epstein's collaborator: she supplied the polish, the connections, the breeding he lacked, and she was a licensed helicopter pilot who flew people to Little Saint James because there was no runway on the island itself. The files reportedly include a single FBI report from a victim with no documented follow-up, an email from an adoption-agency director thanking Epstein because "your littlest girl was very naughty," and a photograph, described but not shown, of a child pinned down in sunlight on the island. Wexner's brands — Abercrombie & Fitch, Justice, Victoria's Secret Pink — shaped how an entire generation of children saw their own bodies, dressed by a company whose early advertising was criticized at the time as softcore and whose employees were reportedly scouted rather than hired through applications. In New Mexico, the state attorney general is pursuing access to the Zorro Ranch after reports of buried remains on the property, described in files as "foreign girls," with the Dutch government reportedly asking whether any might be Dutch nationals.

The comfort of a monster

None of that requires anyone to be undead. A man can do all of it and still just be a man — which may be exactly why so many people would rather he weren't. If Jeffrey Epstein is a vampire, an ancient and singular evil, then what he did says nothing about the rest of us. If he's simply a person who was given enough money and enough power and took it as far as it would go, that's a much harder thing to sit with. The FedEx account tied to his name kept shipping for years after his reported death, including a 2024 delivery of Gulfstream airplane parts sent to an address tied to one of his supposedly defunct businesses — proof of nothing, really, except that even after the body is gone, the paperwork keeps insisting he's still somewhere, doing business as usual.

The transcript

Chapters & full transcript12,677 words
Chapters
  1. 02:41The Vampire's Monologue
  2. 04:18Jackson Becomes Jeffrey Epstein
  3. 06:27The Anatomy of a Conspiracy Theory
  4. 11:54EDKH and the 4chan Whistleblower
  5. 19:39The Date That Doesn't Add Up
  6. 50:30The Discussion: Leverage, Wexner, and the Files

This transcript was generated automatically from the episode audio and may contain errors. Times are approximate, since ad breaks can shift them by a minute or two.

00:03

It must be exhausting to be immortal. On the one hand, there's no need to be in any kind of a hurry ever because the one thing you have is time. On the other hand, all you have is time, the days stretching into years, decades, centuries, all those empty hours to fill. You've seen everything. You've tasted everything. You've been everywhere because an immortal must, like a shark, be in constant motion.

00:33

How else can you pull off the trick of not ever dying while around you every stranger, every neighbor, every friend just crumbles so quickly in the dust? You can understand that an immortal being every now and again might be desperate for novelty, desperate enough to risk discovery, or maybe confident and arrogant enough to know that people will believe what they want to believe.

01:03

People find a way to accept and live with even the most outlandish contradictions. And besides, what do you care? You're immortal. These superstitious creatures who think they know something about you, please, their minds, their worlds are too narrow to make sense of anything like you. Besides, we'll be dead soon enough and whatever gossip and rumors outlive them will simply become part of legend.

01:31

Be honest. You love hearing those scary fireside stories about monsters and devils about you. It's your favorite inside joke. How many lives have you dipped in and out of? How many chapters of human history have you helped to write? Now it's the age of the Internet, information rocketing around the world in fragments of seconds, still plenty of places to hide.

02:02

But in a world of cell phone cameras and drones and security video everywhere, it's more stressful than you like. But you're not worried. You were born so much smarter than most people. And time has buffed that intellect to a terrifying shine. Even a wily old monster with eons of practice can get a little sloppy, though a little cocky.

02:29

Live in the shadows long enough and you might forget that the light can still find you. Sooner or later, that day comes that you can't outrun it. Is that what happened to you, Andrew Jackson? Is your time finally up, vampire? True stuff. Hold up. Wait just a minute. Are you suggesting that the seventh president of these United States, Mr. Andrew Jackson, was an immortal bloodsucking fiend?

03:29

Well, yeah, that's what we're suggesting. But wait, there's more. Not only was Andrew Jackson an immortal bloodsucking fiend, his face has been showing up in your news feed for at least 20 years under a different name, of course. That's one of the downsides of living forever. All those trips to the DMV that you have to make.

03:50

This go around. Maybe you decided to pay a little tribute to your past just for funsies. You know, you can't be Andrew Jackson again. That's unwise. But you could borrow a name from someone you admire, someone who once inspired you, like Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson. Let's drop the Thomas, though, and I think Jefferson is way too formal for this era.

04:18

Jefferson, Jeff, Jeffrey. That's pretty good. Ooh, Jeff for short. How fun to have such a crisp boyish nickname. Now for a last name, something no one would expect you to choose, an ethnic name, maybe. Hey, there's an inside joke for the ages. Jeffrey, Jeffrey, Jeffrey, Jeffrey Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein. That's got a ring to it and it sounds completely legit.

04:50

And the fact that your face looks pretty much exactly like the engraving of your face that they put on the twenty dollar bill. So what? Who even carries cash these days? Who studies a twenty dollar bill? Besides, everybody looks like somebody. You're golden. And so begins a new chapter in the everlasting life of that undead vampire we used to call Andrew Jackson.

05:16

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06:22

How do you build a conspiracy theory? What's the recipe? Dr. Daniel Jolley, a professor in sociology at the University of Nottingham, is one of the world's experts in conspiracy theories. Don't even feel a little bit defensive because according to Dr. Jolley, most of us believe at least one conspiracy theory and are kind of borderline on a few more.

06:45

Believing in conspiracy theories doesn't mean you're crazy or stupid. It's just another way that humans have of trying to make sense out of chaos. When the reality in front of us refuses to add up, our clever little brains get busy looking for answers because you want answers to your questions. You want reasons, the how and the who and the why.

07:08

Throw in a healthy dose of mistrust for institutions, organizations and other people and you may be a little more likely to go down a rabbit hole. Conspiracy theories are almost always about power and how it's wielded. The recipe, according to Professor Jolley, only calls for three ingredients. You've got an actor, which is always someone who's perceived to be a powerful group.

07:35

It's never someone mundane or meek. It is always a sinister, perceived powerful group. Just because a group is powerful doesn't mean it also can't be marginalized, like immigrants or LGBTQ folks, for example. The second thing is then in action, this powerful group doing something. That something might be simply trying to exist in peace, enjoying the same rights and freedoms as everyone else.

08:02

And the third thing is the motive, i.e. typically it's always them forcing something sinister to help them. So self-interest for power or money. The gay agenda, the trans agenda, the feminist agenda, the Jewish agenda, the Muslim agenda and so on and so on and so on for most of human history. It's this fear and suspicion and dread and hatred of a group of them trying to force their agenda that's your first clue that you might be looking at a conspiracy theory.

08:33

All of these theories, even the craziest ones, are built for belief because these theories target people who already believe that something nefarious is afoot with the designated them. A truly sticky, persistent conspiracy theory is always anchored in truth. The more anchor points to reality that you can create, the better.

08:57

For example, the Illuminati, a secret society of royalties, celebrities, U.S. presidents, all conspiring to dominate and rule the world. Ask a suspected Illuminati like Jay-Z and you can be sure he'll deny it. His denial is how you know it's true, goes the thinking. To be honest though, and after reading through the released Epstein files, the Illuminati is looking disturbingly real right about now.

09:26

Related to the Illuminati is the belief that sinister reptiles of extraterrestrial origin are running the U.S. government. About 12 million Americans believe that with their whole heart and at this point, I'm not arguing with any of them. The way I've personally studied some in Congress to see if they have that weird membrane, you know that third eyelid that moves horizontally like a crocodile?

09:49

The moon landing, that never happened. This is one of the OG conspiracy theories and roughly 1 in 10 Americans believe it, that we never went to the moon, that the whole thing was staged by Hollywood out in the desert southwest somewhere. There's a clip that circulates online, a guy claiming that his dad worked for NASA and confessed on his deathbed that the moon landing was faked.

10:13

Denver International Airport, headquarters for the New World Order, the whole thing built atop a secret underground network of bunkers and tunnels housing reptilian aliens and billionaires and military secrets. This conspiracy theory is so entrenched that the Denver Airport eventually just threw up its hands and joined in.

10:36

While renovations were underway recently, the airport erected enormous construction walls painted with murals of lizard people and pyramids and aliens. They even created an alien themed play area for kids. File this under the strategy, tell the truth because no one will believe it anyway. And then there's this conspiracy theory, a new one still in its infancy but gaining strength every day.

11:04

Here goes. On August 10th, 2019, at 633 a.m., guards at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York City found a male inmate unresponsive in his cell. Based on evidence, it appeared that the man had attempted suicide by hanging. Prison guards reportedly performed CPR and the inmate was transported to a nearby hospital where he was pronounced dead at 639 a.m.

11:32

The inmate was being held at the MCC awaiting trial on sex trafficking conspiracy charges. His name was Jeffrey Epstein. You're wondering, what's the conspiracy theory here, right? It all sounds very cut and dried. He killed himself in his jail cell, end of story. Well here we go. It's called Epstein didn't kill himself or EDKH for short.

11:58

Lots of people believe this one. Like as of 2023, more than half of Americans surveyed agreed that this man did not take his own life. Photos are popping up all over social media. A heavily bearded man spotted in the company of bodyguards in Tel Aviv. Look at this, reads the post. Facial identification software reveals that there is a 91% chance that this man in this photograph is actually the supposedly dead Jeffrey Epstein.

12:34

Then there's the alleged Fortnite account with the handle Little St. Jeff 1. Little St. Jeff 1, the name of the notorious sex offenders private island in the US Virgin Islands. There's at least one email in the latest Epstein file dump that points to a $25.95 purchase of V-Bucks in Fortnite and the Little St. Jeff 1 account is showing up as active in Israel right now.

13:04

It could all be a coincidence. It could all be AI. Because now we get to live in the crappiest dystopia where we can no longer trust the evidence of our own senses. Our food is polluted and our cars don't fly. It's like we deliberately opted for all of the worst things in movies like Blade Runner and Minority Report. This Epstein didn't kill himself conspiracy theory is breaking containment like a wildfire because of course it is.

13:31

For starters, Epstein is a monster of staggering magnitude and monsters like that are always the hardest to kill. This man oozed his way into every system that shapes our lives, finance, politics, the arts, entertainment. And once inside, he shaped those systems to conceal both his presence and his manipulations. Oh, stop.

14:00

You say nonsense. He was just one man. You're letting your imagination run wild. What's easy to think that it's comforting too, because if there's one thing Americans thought we could count on, it was our charming little honor system, those checks and balances, those vaunted guardrails. But an honor system depends on honor.

14:23

At the end of the day, it's nothing more than a shared agreement about who we are and what we stand for. We look at a man like Epstein and we want to call him an outlier, an exception. We want to make him the villain of the story so that his death means the scary part is over. Yet at the same time, he's too much a villain to just die.

14:45

That's unsatisfying. Where's the justice in that? And so the monster lives on. And now we have to make sense of it. Epstein didn't kill himself. We say no way. The day before Epstein ended his life, a federal judge unsealed about 2000 pages of documents in a sexual abuse lawsuit against him. That development, prison officials observed, further eroded Epstein's previous elevated status.

15:13

That combined with a significant lack of interpersonal connections and the idea of potentially spending his life in prison were likely factors in contributing to Mr. Epstein's suicide, officials wrote. The Internet exploded with skepticism from the moment it was announced that Jeffrey Epstein hanged himself in his jail cell.

15:36

While convenient with the online discourse that the one man capable of bringing down entire governments, monarchies and industries, a man known for his breathtaking self-absorption, selfishness and ego, that man, after just 35 days in lockup, knotted a sheet around his throat and yeeted himself into eternity, all of his wealth, power, connections, all of the information that he'd spent years collecting and weaponizing, and he just gives up after 35 days.

16:12

It isn't hard to understand why so many people raised an eyebrow at the idea of Epstein taking his own life in that cramped jail cell. Shortly after Epstein's death, President Donald Trump retweeted a right wing media figure's post that included the viral hashtag Clinton body count, helping to promote the theory that Bill and Hillary Clinton murdered Epstein to keep him from revealing their secrets.

16:37

At the very same time, the hashtag Trump body count appeared in social media posts repeating the same narrative, only with Trump as mastermind. Other theories claim Prince Andrew or Bill Gates may be ultimately responsible for Epstein's And tons of people are convinced that he's being sheltered in Israel because the truth about Jeffrey Epstein is that he was an Israeli intelligence agent running a global blackmail scheme on behalf of the Maasai.

17:09

Now something strange did happen on the morning of Epstein's alleged suicide. An anonymous user posted this on the online bulletin board 4chan. Not saying anything after this, please do not try to dox me. But last night, after the 415 count, they took a medical in a wheelchair, front cuffed, but not one triage nurse said they spoke to him.

17:32

Next thing we know, a trip van pulls up. We do not do releases on the weekends unless a judge orders it. Next thing we know, he's put in a single man cell and hangs himself. Here's the thing. The trip van did not sign in and we did not record the plate number and a guy in a green dress military outfit was in the back of the van, according to the tower guy who let him through the gate.

17:59

You guys, I am shaking right now, but I think they switched him out. One day later, subpoenas were issued to 4chan, Apple, AT&T and Citibank. They were determined to flush out the anonymous poster making these outrageous claims. And they found him, an employee at the Metropolitan Correction Center named Roberto Grijalva.

18:26

Included in the Epstein files, file number EFTA 00048963 is a written memo authored by Grijalva just days after Epstein's death. Dated August 12, 2019, the memo is addressed to Warden N. Diel and titled, Past Information from Special Housing Unit. In the memo, Grijalva states that on Friday, August 9, 2019, at approximately 1.50 p.m., he passed information to oncoming staff, including Officer Davis, Officer Shakir, and Officer Joiner.

19:03

He wrote that inmate Reyes was going WAB and might not return, and that inmate Jeffrey Epstein would be needing a cellmate upon arrival from his attorney visit. That document confirmed Roberto Grijalva's employment at the jail, and right smack in the middle of the chain of communication about inmate Epstein's housing status.

19:25

And all of that was less than 24 hours before the perverted fiend was found dead, or plain dead. Here's something no one's yet explained. If Epstein died on August 10, 2019, why, in the Epstein files, is there a press release from the Department of Justice about his death that's dated August 9, 2019? And that release reads like this.

19:51

For immediate release, Manhattan U.S. Attorney Jeffrey S. Berman said earlier this morning, the Manhattan Correctional Center confirmed that Jeffrey Epstein, who faced charges brought by this office of engaging in the sex trafficking of minors, had been found unresponsive in his cell and was pronounced dead shortly thereafter of an apparent suicide.

20:15

Today's events are disturbing, and we are deeply aware of their potential to present yet another hurdle to giving Epstein's many victims their day in court. To those brave young women who have already come forward, and to the many others who have yet to do so, let me reiterate that we remain committed to standing for you, and our investigation of the conduct charged in the indictment, which included a conspiracy count, remains ongoing.

20:44

According to official accounts, a corrections officer found Epstein unresponsive in his cell shortly after 6.30 a.m. on August 10. Despite attempts to resuscitate, the medical examiner declared him dead shortly afterward. So why did the DOJ have a press release dated one day earlier, August 9, all written up and ready to go?

21:07

The official explanation to account for this weird discrepancy in the date of Epstein's death is this. Oh, that? That's nothing. That's just a press template release we use. Oh. Well, okay then. That covers it. I mean, you have a template, and you plugged a bunch of information into it. Information that you didn't have on the 9th, because it hadn't yet happened.

21:28

Wait, what's that? What? Oh. Oh, that's just how you do things. Well, wouldn't it have been better, easier, to just say that you got the dates wrong? That's an honest mistake. But that's not what they said. The truth is, for the Epstein didn't die conspiracy theory, it's not like we even need a body. All we need is doubt as to whether or not that body was dead at all.

21:57

And if we're going to convince people that Jeffrey Epstein is an immortal vampire who's been selecting and shedding identities for centuries, all we really have to do is take the basic skeleton of a conspiracy theory and hang just enough meat on it to create that doubt. Beginning with global elites like Epstein never die, they simply transform.

22:23

Bizarre claims have found similarities between the facial structure of Jeffrey Epstein and former U.S. President Andrew Jackson. While these claims have been around for some time, they gained steam again as the Justice Department released the final tranche of documents linked to the late convicted child sex offender. Andrew Jackson, the face on the $20 bill.

22:48

How many times you've seen it without really looking? The elongated face, thick, wavy gray hair, eyes hooded from age with a pronounced vertical frown line between the eyes, clearly defined lips with a pronounced philtrum. That's the vertical indentation in the middle of the upper lip. A pronounced crease in the chin, a mole on the right side of the face, about an inch from the mouth, neatly tucked into another crease on the weathered cheek.

23:17

It's Jeffrey Epstein's face, or so it seems. Coincidence? The brain-seeking patterns where there are none? Or the seventh president of the United States is not resting in peace at the hermitage in Nashville because he never died. He just kept on keeping on until a teaching position opened up in an elite private school in New York City.

23:44

Andrew Jackson wasn't a formally educated man, and he had managed just fine, so he had no qualms about going to work at Dalton without a college degree, not that he set out to exploit his gig teaching the children of the wealthy and powerful. The opportunity presented itself, and he was a man with a sharp eye for opportunity.

24:03

He had no idea that this job at Dalton would kick open the kind of doors that aren't just locked. They're invisible, those doors, to all but the most select few. It would be silly to claim that Andrew Jackson knew what kind of fortune he could make, or what kind of power he could wield. The man is a vampire, not a wizard.

24:26

But what does a vampire have but time? Think of the vast amount of knowledge the vampire acquires over eons, knowledge and experience of places and people and systems. The kind of knowledge that might easily be mistaken for brilliance, for vision, even maybe for a kind of psychic gift. But, but, wouldn't it also be true that a person can change their name, their clothes, their address?

24:58

The externals are easy, but changing who you are, what you believe, your internal self, your core self, that's harder. Luckily, for Andrew Jackson turned Jeffrey Epstein, very little internal transformation would be required. Epstein could just dust off so many of Jackson's distasteful beliefs and questionable policies, dress them up in modern words and phrases, and presto, everything old is new again.

25:34

In order to exploit a human being, you have to see yourself as innately superior. And was there ever a being more convinced of his own superiority than Jeffrey Epstein? In his Andrew Jackson incarnation, the vampire had particular contempt for America's indigenous people. In 1830, barely a year into his presidency, the vampire signed the Indian Removal Act.

26:01

The stated intention was to relocate Native Americans from the South to a new Indian colonization zone in the West, present-day Oklahoma, to be exact. The forced march to this new territory became known as the Trail of Tears. The vampire was unmoved by the sight of the Choctaw people in chains or by the death toll that exceeded 4,000 souls.

26:26

The vampire didn't see the humanity in his victims. During the Seminole War, the vampire Jackson ordered his troops to take women and children hostage. The vampire liked women, many of them on the younger side. One way you can tell it's a vampire is the vampire likes to talk of himself in the third person. I'll tell you what else he likes, and that's money.

26:54

Wealth was so very important to the vampire, for its own sake, as well as for what it could buy. The vampire Jackson's fortune was built almost entirely on the backs of enslaved people. People, the vampire very much considered property. On October 3rd, 1804, the vampire Andrew Jackson paid the Tennessee Gazette to run the following ad.

27:21

Stop the runaway, $50 reward, eloped from the subscriber, living near Nashville on the 25th of June, a mulatto man, slave, about 30 years old, 6 feet and an inch, stout, made and active, talks sensible, stoops in his walk, and has a remarkable large foot broad across the root of the toes, will pass for a free man, as I am informed he has obtained by some means certificates as such.

27:58

He will make for Detroit through the flats of Kentucky and Ohio, or the upper part of Louisiana. The above reward will be given any person that will take him and deliver him to me, or secure him in jail so that I can get him. If taken out of the state, the above reward and all reasonable expenses paid. And $10 extra for every hundred lashes any person will give him to the amount of $300, signed Andrew Jackson.

28:36

Just so you know, that $300 is worth over $8,000 today, that's a lot of money for Jackson to pay as a bonus for brutalizing a human being, a stranger to you. It's horrifying this casual ownership of a person, this casual way such unthinkable violence was laid out and all for a price, horrifying to us, to the vampire, violence is his nature.

29:05

In 1804, his victims were the indigenous and people of color. By the early 2000s, the vampire had cultivated a taste for more tender flesh, bodies of children, bodies he considered his property, because for a being who cannot die, life is a very cheap commodity. Mortals, they come and go in the blink of an eye. To a vampire, humans are like mosquitoes, far too many of them.

29:38

And you don't think twice about swatting them away. The vampire Jackson routinely ordered the killing of fugitive slaves. If they would not serve their purpose, then they were a liability, useful until they weren't. There was no better way than the grave to ensure silence. It was a lesson the vampire had learned well, one he used again and again.

30:04

Now is Andrew Jackson and eventually in the future is Jeffrey Epstein. The vampire Jackson had his little quirks, his personal peculiarities, like his absolute loathing of the Bank of the United States. So in 1832, he shut it down, moving the government's money to certain state banks that he favored. Banks run by friends and cronies, people who were loyal to the vampire Jackson.

30:29

That this led to rampant inflation and the panic of 1837, that was for the little people to sort out. Banks failed. Businesses closed. Mass unemployment meant hunger and suffering on an enormous scale. Fascinating to witness, I thought. The mortals all in a tizzy like ants scrambling to flee as their home is crushed by the boot of a man who never bothered to look down.

30:57

Never even realized they existed. Oh, but the power of the presidency, it was intoxicating. Tedious also, it has to be said, tiresome at times. It was an experience that the vampire Jackson was glad to have had, but never again. Why take on the drudgery of public office? Why be the president with all of the irritation and invasion of privacy that comes with the When you can buy the president, pull the strings and make the puppet dance.

31:32

As President Andrew Jackson, the vampire purged the ranks of federal workers, worker bees, drones with no initiative or ambitions of their own. Now, as Epstein, the vampire could easily make that sort of thing happen from the comfort of home. Oh, while getting a massage, talk about delegating, the vampire preferred that word to blackmail, which struck him as melodramatic, the weak, the sheep.

32:05

They might scream blackmail, but true players understood the game. Honestly, for the vampire, the challenge of living forever was the inescapable fact of people. So hard at times to keep a straight face when dealing with humans, children, all of them, even the elderly. You had to remind yourself to be patient, to speak to them as though they were capable of deeper thought when you know they're a little more evolved than livestock.

32:38

It has to be said, though, that like most choice livestock, they are delicious. Human flesh, a tree that by the time the vampire was calling himself Jeffrey, he could no longer resist. As Andrew Jackson, he had such a taste of veal as Jeffrey Epstein was veal of another kind. The vampire had nothing but contempt for human authority, but he had to navigate it carefully if for no other reason than to protect himself, to avoid the kind of scrutiny that risked the vampire being unmasked.

33:18

Andrew Jackson was exasperated by the Supreme Court, a name that gave the old monster endless giggles. Supreme. It really was too much. Supreme. Please. It was easiest to simply ignore any rulings that didn't serve his purposes. What would the court do? Kill him? It was laughable. Jeffrey Epstein solved that problem by buying the Supreme Court.

33:49

They came cheap. The ones who pretend to have principles always do. It's funny how that works. The patience the immortal vampire had. Imagine being governed by toddlers, how hard it was to play along, but how necessary to protect his existence. It's no wonder that by the time the vampire stepped into the Jeffrey Epstein identity, he was more than ready to cut ties with the mortal world and create a reality of his own.

34:19

Starting with money. Necessary, of course, but a headache in so many ways, especially in this modern world where every transaction was recorded. These creatures had no appreciation for discretion, no comprehension of the myriad of ways that money could shift the world from the shadows. All these receipts. It was a headache.

34:48

And so the vampire slipped into yet another temporary identity. Satoshi Nakamoto, the inventor of Bitcoin. Bitcoin, the anonymous digital currency. The kind of money that's untraceable, unhackable. Think secure financial transactions that exist entirely outside government oversight. Nearly impossible to forge or tamper with.

35:20

What could be more perfect for the vampire who must forever shield itself from human scrutiny? Time is precious because it's short. Life is precious because we die. The world is a wonder because our time here is so very brief. Unless it isn't. Not for you. And boredom sets in. When you can have anything, what do you want?

35:54

What do you value? And more importantly, what restrains you? When you can live forever, what rules do you follow? The brain craves novelty. We're wired to seek out new experiences, new challenges. Novelty triggers a rush of dopamine. Whether we're 7 years old or 70 or 700. We crave the new. It's easy to find when we're children, everything is new.

36:24

Even into our old age, we can surprise ourselves. But the truth is, we sometimes give up trying. We don't seek novelty because we're tired. We get old and we take comfort in the familiar. But if time stretched before you, limitless and meaningless, what might you do to get your kicks? Maybe you too would come to see the people, the human beings around you as playthings.

36:51

The way the vampire did. But listen, at no time was he invisible. That was a power beyond his grasp. The problem with humans that vexed him, as it does all monsters, is our curiosity. Curiosity Humans are always watching even if they seldom understand what it is they're seeing. You might wonder why a creature such as myself would choose the public square over the dark alley.

37:23

And I will tell you, because it simply doesn't matter. Humans will reject the fact of me because there is no place for anything like me in their carefully ordered world. To exist outside belief is to be truly free. And I was. I am. When humans look at me, they see the illusion of a man. Maybe the old instinctive warning bells go off here and there, but they ignore them because I'm rich.

37:59

You really can't buy anything, including the idea people have of you, if you have the money. As the writer James Parton said of the vampire Andrew Jackson in the days leading up to the Civil War, Andrew Jackson, I am given to understand, was a patriot and a traitor. He was one of the greatest generals and wholly ignorant of the art of war.

38:27

A writer, brilliant, elegant, eloquent, without being able to compose a correct sentence or spell words of four syllables. A most law-defying, law-obeying citizen. A stickler for discipline, he never hesitated to disobey his superior. A democratic autocrat, an urbane savage, an atrocious saint. I miss those days a little when people made an effort with language.

38:55

You know, atrocious saint. I couldn't have said it better myself. An atrocious saint. Not a bad description for Jeffrey Epstein. Not when you read some of the funny emails sent to the man. Even the disgraced Duchess of York, Sarah Ferguson, threw up all over the man. Writing in 2010, You are a legend. I really don't have the words to describe my love, gratitude for your generosity, and kindness.

39:35

I am at your service. Marry me. Forget that, Fergie. Marriage is tricky for an immortal. All that proximity, all that intimacy makes it hard to conceal the truth of yourself. When he wore the name Andrew Jackson, the vampire was known to be deeply devoted and faithful to his wife, Rachel, who died suddenly just weeks before the vampire was inaugurated as the seventh president of the United States.

40:04

Terrible loss, awful tragedy, blah, blah, blah. Leaving the vampire alone in the White House. All living things are in a constant state of change and evolution. The same is true for all undead things. The cellular and metabolic engines may be silent, but an immortal predator, even one who lurks in the shadows, can't help but adapt and change with society.

40:33

Over the centuries, the vampire's cleverness had enabled his survival. But those same centuries had buffed away the last of his humanity. He no longer even thought like a man. How he'd once feared detection, now he knew better. Now he understood how to use money and fame and access to power as the ultimate disguise. People were so simple, really.

40:56

Gullible and greedy. So easy to bend and manipulate that in the vampire's rare moments of honesty, he had to confess to being more than a little weary of them. His appetites, he reasoned, however violent or deviant, weren't his fault. You try living for centuries without becoming bored. Not to mention the energy he had to pour into maintaining the whole tiresome illusion that he was one of them was dull beyond belief, truly.

41:27

And so, in this era, the vampire indulged in the one enthusiasm he had left, the ruin of innocence. The vampire was far from alone in this. Not that the vampire wanted fellowship, he didn't. Humans were merely playthings to him. But leverage? Leverage was more than power, more than wealth. Leverage was a weapon. And the vampire's battlefield was the world.

41:56

Financial markets, governments, media empires, the architecture of information itself. It amused the vampire that his one weakness, the tender, fresh flesh of children, was also an ideal trap to snare his human collaborators. It's almost perfect, isn't it? Almost biblical, you might say. The old monster, he'd had a very long time to perfect the game.

42:26

And he'd learned. Learned how to place himself at the very center of power. Learned how to spot the moment when it was time to go to ground, wait, dip out, wait for his next reinvention. But the temptation to show off just a little bit. Imagine being the smartest person in any room with centuries of lived experience forced to fake admiration and excitement and even awe for the mediocre ideas and accomplishments of your inferiors.

42:59

You can't imagine how vacuous it all is. I'll admit, I might have gotten sloppy. I thought I could control my own story. I always had. I underestimated the threats. That Florida reporter, Julie Brown. I have to hand it to her. The woman was relentless. I blew it off. Arrogance. Okay, is that what you want to hear? It's true.

43:28

I was arrogant. It's an occupational hazard for the immortal. But let me give you some advice and this one's free. A little gift from me to you. Of all his many and varied talents, surviving turned out to be the vampire's greatest skill. One that had carried him through decades and then centuries. It was easy to stay a step or ten ahead of any overly curious human.

43:57

But their internet was something else. A human invention the vampire actually feared. All the old superstitions about garlic and crucifixes and mirrors. Nonsense. The internet though? That was real. The vampire could change his name, his appearance, his address. He could hide his wealth, conceal his movements and buy almost anyone's silence.

44:23

He could destroy evidence, burn papers. Yet now he faced a task that was beyond even his powers. He simply couldn't erase himself from the digital world. There are strange anomalies tucked into the released and heavily redacted Epstein files. Like an email dated Tuesday, July 6, 2021. An attempt to arrange a meeting with Jeffrey Epstein.

44:51

That wouldn't be any flavor of weird except for the fact that Jeffrey Epstein allegedly died on August 10, 2019. Or maybe August 9, 2019? The DOJ contradicted itself a little bit. To use one of the vampire's favorite words, whoops. Then there was Epstein's FedEx account, active and used for shipments for years after his alleged death.

45:17

One of those shipments, scheduled in 2024, was for a load of Gulfstream airplane parts to be delivered to the address of a supposedly defunct business once owned by the dead man. Strange, right? Not conclusive, but strange. So let's just for a minute suspend disbelief and really consider what it would look like to hunt an immortal entity. You think you have the upper hand, right?

45:45

You don't. It's too easy to dismiss things like emails, FedEx accounts, even very persuasive photographs can be explained away. Scammers and wannabes jump all over a story like this one. Just recently, the CEO of Epic Games felt compelled to announce that, no, Jeffrey Epstein's old Fortnite account wasn't active after his death.

46:08

It was another user changing their name to Little St. Jeff 1 and bringing the world's attention crashing down on them. See, the debunkers say? It was bogus. The man is dead. That's the simplest explanation, which is fair. But a conspiracy theory like Epstein didn't die doesn't spring into existence because it makes sense.

46:32

People want Epstein to be alive because his death in that jail cell, assuming it happened, is an unsatisfying ending. No accountability, no answers, no justice, no closure. Maybe that's why we want Jeffrey Epstein to be supernatural and undead. Because if he's just a person, what does that say about us? We don't want to think of ourselves as capable of doing the things he's been accused of, the things he's done. Lying, cheating, blackmail, sexually assaulting children, eating the flesh of infants, torture, mutilation, murder.

47:10

If we can figure out a way to make a man like Jeffrey Epstein non-human, then we can feel good about being human. We would never, we say. We could never, we say. That man is a demon, is what we say. And then some clever individual takes a good long look at the $20 bill and goes, Hey, who does this look like? And just like that, the man becomes the monster.

47:41

Immortalized in a conspiracy theory that won't go away. They never do. Just look at the 1 in 10 Americans who insist we never went to the moon. Neil Armstrong took that legendary small step for mankind 57 years ago, and we're still arguing about whether or not it happened at all. President Andrew Jackson was an unrepentant racist.

48:05

Jeffrey Epstein was an unrepentant eugenicist. That's enough to have in common right there. Then throw in the physical resemblance and a handful of eerie coincidences. Post it on a social media platform and let it simmer. Serve it up with conjecture, connections, secrets. Frost it with a thick layer of paranoia about AI.

48:29

How do we even know what's real now? And then get ready to spend the rest of your life swiping past posts about Jeffrey Epstein being spotted in Tel Aviv or London or Paris. Thousands of victims. That's a number that makes much more sense to us if he's a monster for real. That's why the Epstein didn't die conspiracy sprang into being.

48:55

We need to put distance between him and us so that we can live in this world, happily oblivious to the horrors behind the scenes, clueless that what we call reality is a puppet show put on by forces beyond our comprehension. What we call free will is more and more shaped by algorithms designed to divide and manipulate us.

49:21

Regular people doing our best to play by the rules. That's who we are. And him? He's a vampire. Next time on true weird stuff. We've got a pair of sisters who life through a whole lot of challenges that they lost their mom. They lost their home. They took to the road as actors in a theatrical troupe and got stranded. And instead of crying or feeling sorry for themselves, those two sisters turned around and opened the fanciest brothel the city of Chicago has ever, ever seen. The Scarlet Sisters on the next true weird stuff.

50:17

Special thanks to our voice talents on this episode. Charly King, Erin Cox, Sam Moore, Kary "Doc" Bowser, and Don Morgan. Sherry, I love this idea. I love how you tied all this together. But I love the idea about Epstein being a vampire and the Andrew Jackson connection. And the thing about being a vampire is when you don't die and you continue on, it's kind of like Groundhog Day.

50:48

You know? Only in Groundhog Day, we're optimistic enough to believe that if you were put in that situation that ultimately you would understand what the nature of everything is, and it would appeal to the better side of our natures. You see what I mean? You sure hope that. You sure do. You do. You do hope that. It turns out to not be the case, but you surely do hope that.

51:22

Apparently, if that be the case with Epstein, that he never got tired of what all he was doing. You know what I mean? The power, the control, the money, all those kinds of things. The ante keeps getting upped, right? It's like anything else. You're always chasing that first high. You know? So I've made a solemn commitment to myself to keep the worst of what I've seen and read in the head because they're truly terrible.

52:04

They're truly awful. I could tell you things and you'll never be right, and I don't think that's fair to do. Even if I were to say, alright, if you don't want to hear what I'm about to say, skip. But then Max has to hear it, and Max will have to hear it over and over again when he's editing. I haven't shared any of these things, but let me tell you this.

52:25

What I have seen and read in the Epstein files, monsters in fiction are guilty of less. In his own words, if this man has done a fraction of what these files suggest, we are talking the most contempt for life, cruel, violent, vile, unspeakable, to the point where you go, this is some devil stuff, man. This is like what happens in hell.

53:00

So, Jeffrey Epstein's own, and the man, apparently there wasn't a picture he didn't take or something he didn't write down. That man really kept track. In his own words, you would have no trouble. If I changed his name to Count So-and-So and wrote this like a gothic short story, you'd have no trouble believing in this monster.

53:23

Well, because he's that evil and his tentacles got into so many places of money, prestige, power, I mean, Bill Gates is one of the smartest guys around, right? And he seduced him with whatever it was he was seducing him with. Whether it was money or sex or whatever it was. The one thing, Sherry, it seems like Prince Andrew is the only one that was going down to that island and hooking up.

53:59

You know what I mean? And with underage women. Well, what were the rest of these people doing with him? Was it just the money? I mean... Listen, I'm here to tell you I've seen things. Prince Andrew wasn't alone in that. And we have to remember that so much of the attention in what passes for our press these days, so much of the attention has focused on the island, Little St. Jeff.

54:25

But Jeffrey Epstein had a palatial property in New York City, an apartment for many, many years in Paris. He had the ranch in New Mexico. When people say so-and-so never flew on the Lolita Express, well, there's no runway at Little St. Jeff's. They would land in the U.S. like on St. Thomas and then helicopter over. Hey, guess who was a licensed, certified helicopter pilot?

54:51

That'd be Ghislaine Maxwell. Dracula's familiar Renfield. Yeah. So, the layers in this are so deep and so wide that it's not possible yet to say what he did or did not do, what he was or was not capable of. Because it's truly so vast and horrifying. And the word to remember when you're talking about the vampire Jeffrey Epstein, that word isn't money or pedophile. That word is leverage, because that's what that man was chasing, because he knew that his best chance of remaining free and concealed was by having extraordinary leverage.

55:43

I love how you laid out with the conspiracy theories and how conspiracy theories happen. The moon landing is always my favorite, and Buzz Aldrin loves to play with that. He's like, no, I was there, I promise you. But then when the conspiracy theory people come, he loves to play with them a little bit, because, I don't know, I suppose he takes some sort of pleasure in that, because he does know what the truth of the situation is. I was in a play, and I know I've talked about this before in a previous episode, but the play was called Yankee Tavern.

56:22

It was off-Broadway for years, but the guy who's sort of the center of the play, who's the part I play, is a guy who is a crazy conspiracy theory nut, right? And as you go through the course of this play, and at the very beginning, he's got like a headset on and he's spouting some conspiracy theory to a radio talk show. So you're like, oh, we know who this guy is. We've heard this guy before, right?

56:50

And as you go through the show, he makes some very plausible points about 9-11, and so you're at the end of the show, and it's not that you're saying that he's right, but he seems less crazy, you know, when all of these things are laid out, because there is the accepted line about what happened with lots of things, like, for instance, the JFK assassination, or even the RFK assassination, in addition to 9-11, and the moon landing, and all of these things. But there's always a plausibility about all of this stuff, if you examine it.

57:30

I think that there's lots of reasons that people would like you to believe that he committed suicide. There's lots of good reasons. When you think about the amount of power, and the exposure that people would have had, the number of people with, you know, all these reputations that would have been exposed that's involved with this, you start to look at that, and you say, you know, there might be a plausibility to the fact that he was murdered, or perhaps, you know, they say he was murdered, but actually he's living somewhere else now.

58:10

We're in a really diabolical time, because of AI. I have seen photographs of a man walking on streets in Tel Aviv, and I look at this man, the first batch, it's like, I don't know, I mean, maybe, he also looks like a guy we used to work with named John, but I've seen photos now where I would swear on oath that I'm looking at Jeffrey Epstein, but of course AI, and not to be all like, this tinfoil hat's so tight it's cutting off circulation in my head, but I think that maybe that's part of it.

58:52

By making it so we can't trust anything, it's impossible to really prosecute. We're chasing shadows, and make-believe. And that's what makes Jeffrey Epstein vampire, the conspiracy theory that it is, because our little meaty brains go, there's so much going on here, there's no way this guy is like a regular guy. Just the fact that it was revealed in the Jeffrey Epstein files, that he's the inventor of Bitcoin, which is the ultimate currency for criminals.

59:26

It's just untrackable, unhackable. There's so much here. For anyone, and I don't think there's anyone listening to this that falls into this camp, but no, we're not just going to move on. We're not going to be like, well, that was a long time ago. The magnitude of crime that has crossed decades and borders, the number of people that have been victimized, we don't move on.

59:57

To suggest that it's time to just move on is to just abandon any last vestige of the American experiment, and to just knuckle under the boot. We don't move on. Either we have the rule of law or we don't. How we're able to prosecute the individuals in these files, that's for somebody way smarter than me. This thing is so deep and so wide and has so many tentacles and so many layers upon layers upon layers of connection that you couldn't even have a dead man switch in this one.

1:00:34

There's no way either this is a secret and we know nothing about it, or we pull it out into the light and we burn everything down. There's not a middle ground here, I don't think. What do you think? Well, I think that Ghislaine Maxwell, you know, the thing with the underage women, I think that's just, as you said, it's just the tip of the iceberg with this.

1:01:00

And it seems like there are so many things. He really is so evil. I mean, it's not just it just seems like he's evil in every way possible. He was so corrupt in every way possible. I know I asked you the question a few days ago. So he had dealings with so many people and we see pictures of him, but I have no idea what his personality was like.

1:01:24

And if he was charming, if he was charming to these people and likable and all of that, all the more to his evil. You know what I mean? And here is where it gets kind of weird. He was a vulgarian. He was crass. He was crude. And he would not have had the assent that he had if a British aristocrat by the name of Galene Maxwell had not sanded down all those rough edges and told him how to hold a fork. Really?

1:02:01

That part of the story I wasn't aware of. No. So Jeffrey Epstein, he never even finished college and found himself being a math teacher at the Dalton School in New York City where the children of very connected and wealthy, powerful people go. And he met a parent who was very highly placed at Bear Stearns, the investment firm, who was impressed by Jeffrey's natural talent for numbers. And one thing led to another and Jeffrey left his teaching job at Dalton and took kind of an entry level, mid entry level job at Bear Stearns where he immediately began zipping his way up the ladder.

1:02:39

So now we arrive at the point in the Jeffrey Epstein conspiracy theory where we have to make a decision. Do we decide that Jeffrey Epstein, because his wealth was derived from blackmail and his seed money came from the billionaire Leslie Wexner who owns Victoria's Secret and the Limited and owned Justice and all that, right?

1:03:03

So here's the pivot point. Do we say that he got Wexner's money because he managed to persuade Wexner of his brilliance or did he get Wexner's money via blackmail? Because as it turned out Wexner's all over these files and his appetites are grotesque. So now you have to ask yourself was that the moment where this became Jeffrey Epstein blackmail leverage operation or adjacent to the never dead conspiracy theory and it's in this episode is Jeffrey Epstein was working as an agent for Israeli intelligence and that the entire Epstein files can be traced back to the Mossad and this gathering of information leveraging power because if you have enough information and you can leverage these individuals then you can move the world. You can rule the world.

1:04:00

I don't know which of these versions is true. Somebody does but it's not going to be me, right? But you have to make some decisions now. You have to say to yourself, okay, this guy somehow put together an unthinkable fortune with other people's money with he seemingly came out of, that's the other Jeffrey Epstein thing, he seemingly came out of nowhere which neatly fits into the vampire mythology which helps the conspiracy theory live.

1:04:30

He came out of nowhere and he really didn't have the credentials to get where we got. So he's kicking around New York City and listen, when you dig deep into Epstein, you discover that his early days in the Bear Stearns world, he got his hand slapped a handful of times because he overreached, right? And then he meets Ghislaine Maxwell at a party.

1:04:54

Now, Ghislaine Maxwell's father was Robert Maxwell who died mysteriously, was a pedophile, was himself a pedophile. Yes, twisted by the fish he was. And another guy who had his hands on the world's balls and was squeezing them. And one of the adjacent conspiracies in this one is, Ghislaine Maxwell's father owned McGraw Hill Publishing and therefore this cabal of demonic pedophiles has also been influencing what American children learned in public school for the past, you know, 50 years.

1:05:27

That's an adjacent tendril in this conspiracy theory. But what we didn't know, what no one knew at the time, was that Ghislaine Maxwell was not just grieving the death of her father, she was his favorite, she was kind of broke. But she had something better than money for the vampire. She had connections, she had access, and she had breeding.

1:05:49

And she was able to put Jeffrey Epstein on her arm and teach him how to act and introduce him. She opened up an entire world of connections to him. She's not his victim, she's his collaborator by the way. In no way is she his victim. When people start to say perhaps that she should perhaps be pardoned or whatever, I'm not very comfortable with that.

1:06:22

And you shouldn't be, because there are women that have reported to law enforcement, which did nothing by the way. That's the other thing in the Epstein files, it's one FBI report taken from a victim, and no follow-up. No follow-up. If someone called the FBI and accused you of a fraction of the things these folks were accused of, the FBI will be at your doorstep. Ghislaine Maxwell has been accused by multiple victims of rape and sexual assault.

1:06:49

That she was an active participant in those crimes. So in no freaking way, in no freaking way does a girly Peter Pan deserve a pardon. Now the fact that she's the only person currently sitting in jail connected to this, is a disgrace. But that doesn't mean they should let her out. No, no. Yeah. I mean, we've talked about this before, but it does always seem to be interesting that the only people that have suffered the most are people who aren't from this country.

1:07:21

You know, Prince Andrew, and ultimately probably Fergie too, and Ghislaine Maxwell. You think, I mean, we want to think, like, that these are mythical creatures. You know, coming back to the Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself, he's not dead, he's a vampire. You know, we want to believe these are mythical creatures. And in the light of day, and cold reason, you go, yeah, this is all just a bunch of bullshit. But we're living in a moment in reality where, well, kind of all I mean, some I think that people are the biggest and scariest monsters of all. I've said that before.

1:08:01

I think that you should never underestimate the depth of evil that a human being is capable of. But I sure do understand why people reading through these files, looking at this stuff, are saying, no, that's not a person, that's a demon. They're demon worshipping demons. Blood drinking demon demons. And he's a vampire.

1:08:25

I mean, I get it. I certainly can understand why people would say that, because it doesn't seem like he did anything that didn't have a purpose, a selfish purpose, an evil purpose, a purpose that all led back to something to benefit him. You know, there's I don't see, you know, it's not like, well, you know, because even the charitable stuff that he was doing with money, there was an agenda with that.

1:08:55

So, you know, it doesn't seem like there is anything redeeming about the guy. he's a pedophile and a rapist. Is he a cannibal? There's some compelling evidence to suggest that. Is he a murderer? I think so, yeah. I think he's got a lot of blood on his hands. Is he a vampire? I don't know. Yeah, maybe. If he's just a man, he's among the worst, but he had an awful lot of company.

1:09:30

That's the other thing, you know, when we call them the Epstein files, it kind of gives cover to the literally thousands of other individuals in those pages. Many of them are now beginning to experience consequences. I mean, the former Prince Andrew was stripped of his titles because of this, was recently arrested because, again, of evidence that is in the Epstein files about him selling influence, right?

1:10:01

The prime minister of Norway, I believe, wasn't it? Yes, that's correct. There have been a handful of people that have resigned, are under investigation. Royalty, heads of business, we haven't really seen much in the way of consequences in the United States, but I'm stupid enough and optimistic and naive enough to think that we will.

1:10:25

Do I think that this will ever be prosecuted, aired out, and bleached to the extent that it should be? Probably not. No, I can't imagine that it will be. I think there will be people who are sacrificial lambs with this, but I think there's a lot of people who were very involved with it. Some of the people that have been the most powerful in the world, I mean, I'm not going to name names because it makes it sound political, but when you look at this, you go, this is really troubling.

1:10:55

The kinds of people that had connections with him. You know, I don't understand, like, there's a lot I don't understand about people. It's inconceivable to me that you would be sexually attracted to a child, but it's very common and a lot of people are. And it's also one of the things with, like, basically a 100% recidivism rate.

1:11:20

We can't cure you. We can't deter you. Now, there are people that I suspect that are in the files and I don't want to, I'm thinking of a couple, but I'm not going to name their names because those bastards will sue us and we can't even afford, we can't even afford the gas to go to the lawyer's office for a lawsuit. It would be our luck this podcast where we make no money would get sued and put out of business.

1:11:45

So, there are some people in the Epstein files that I suspect might never have found themselves fornicating with a child under any other circumstances, but Epstein was particularly adept at getting the people into the room. Getting them into the room is the hard part. That's the hard part. You send the invitation, they accept it and they need to show up.

1:12:13

Once they show up, Jeffrey Epstein was a master at understanding the darker corners of the human soul, right? The things that we crave that we maybe never acknowledge even to ourselves and then suddenly the opportunity is presented. There is one American politician who I think got himself in over his head at one of these events and realized almost immediately what he had done because here's a guy that literally went from I'm a big American politician to I'm a frightened, scary little bitch accusing everybody of everything to deflect attention from me.

1:12:56

Congress people, senators. Also, when you go through the Epstein files, you're shocked. You're shocked by what's in there. There's an email in the files from a woman who was the head of an adoption agency and her message to Jeffrey was, thank you for last night. Your littlest girl was very naughty. Jeffrey Epstein was a childless bachelor so we know we're not talking about the kids.

1:13:25

Your littlest girl was very naughty. Bitch, you run an adoption agency. I think the biggest and most terrifying thing about this scandal is I'm not sure that we can survive this. And when I say survive it, I don't mean like we're all going to start gasping for air like fish that fell out of the tank. Our idea of ourself, our idea of who we are as a people, as a country, our institutions, when the rot goes all the way to the bottom and the lights get flicked on, you can't live in the house anymore. Do you understand what I'm saying?

1:14:05

And then what? And we're at a very, we're at such a critical point in human history, in our own history because whatever we do next, the stakes couldn't be higher. We can't, we can't, and there are people, and I see their posts all the time and I just don't engage, but there are people that are like, it was a long time ago, none of us are perfect.

1:14:32

Well, you know, but that's like boorish adolescent behavior. What we're talking about here is far more sinister and it cannot be This isn't slap and tickle, y'all. What is in these files, and these are not underage women. These are children. These are kids. And all I'm going to tell you is I saw something in the files that basically was giving instructions about, and you know, like you would do it like the way you clean a but talking about a human infant.

1:15:10

So, I mean, I could tell you things, you'll never be okay again. I'm deeply regretful, and yet I'm not regretful too because I think as a social worker, like I took on the responsibility of looking at things because we can't change if we won't see. We can't get better if we won't see. I think we're probably not going to see most. I think we're going to see the tip of this and the filth that lies underneath it and all of the ways that it has worked itself into every system in our lives. Government, the media, the movies, everything.

1:15:47

It's business. Les Wexner, who is Jeffrey Epstein's fairy godfather. Without Les Wexner, there's no Jeffrey Epstein. It was gaining control of Wexner's enormous fortune that put Jeffrey Epstein on the map in the financial world and made it so much of what happened next possible. Les Wexner's brands, the Limited, Justice, Victoria's Secret, Victoria's Secret Pink, Abercrombie & Fitch shaped the way the entire millennial generation shaped their childhoods.

1:16:21

Their self-images, their body images, their fashion, their culture was all shaped by a wealthy old pedophile. If you think, oh girl, you're just so blogger. Please wake up. Let me tell you a little something about Abercrombie & Fitch that you don't know, Max, because you've never shopped in an Abercrombie & Fitch store. I have never, Sherry. Back when Abercrombie & Fitch first started, when it first launched, there were multiple controversies around the brand, starting with the catalog materials for Abercrombie & Fitch, which were labeled as softcore kiddie porn.

1:17:02

They were. They were teenagers. The photographs were top beautiful, but there were a lot of people that were super uncomfortable with the way these teenagers, these kids were being portrayed in Abercrombie & Fitch advertising materials. Oh, stop being a prude. Oh, my God, it's the human body. Folks are very good at shutting down criticism when they say things like stop being a prude and it's art and it's the human body.

1:17:31

First wave of controversy was Abercrombie & Fitch's advertising materials. Second problem was you couldn't apply for a job at Abercrombie & Fitch. They had scouts that recruited you and invited you to work there. And I'm going to let you guess who got recruited and invited. I mean, I'd go to the mall and I'd go, wow, I'm surprised. I'm surprised that what was going on.

1:17:59

And you could go, well, it's just, I mean, you're just like so dramatic. You're just always looking for it. You're always looking for something. Okay. All right. Fine. But if you're a millennial, every idea you had about yourself, especially for girls, every idea you had about yourself, what you should look like, how you should present yourself, and how much you should weigh, and what your genes should be cut like, how you should relate to boys, every bit of that was shaped by a fucking pedophile.

1:18:33

And if you're not angry about that, if you're not grieving that, then I don't think you're a girl. Because I'm telling you, as a woman, as a female, we're grieving it. We're angry about it. It's exhausting. The whole beauty aesthetic for women in this era, this hairlessness, these chipmunk cheeks, these wide eyes, these boyish hips, this hyper thin body with enormous breasts, do you think that's just an accident or a coincidence or just in the ether somehow?

1:19:18

Well, you know, any time, because we, when, I mean, we were working together when Abercrombie and Fitch was a thing. I mean, really was a thing. And I can remember, I don't know if you got the catalog or we saw the catalog. Anyhow, there was always this part of me that kind of felt like something seems off about this because of the sexualization of men and women who were underage.

1:19:46

Children. The word you were looking for is children. I always do. I make that mistake. I say men and women because I don't want to say girl. I don't want to say... You don't want to be gross. But they are girls and boys. I mean, let's be honest about that. So, I mean, that was the... And the idea was, we're going to do that and act like we're this way because that will make us seem cooler with the kids because the adults or the establishments are getting upset about it. And it did.

1:20:19

And it was successful. But there was always a sense that something is off here. I always had that sense that something was off here. When my daughters were younger, they used to beg me to take them to Justice. So, Justice, Max, was a clothing store for prepubescent little girls. It started really small and went up to high school.

1:20:44

And all of the clothing was hyper-sexualized. And I'm like, we are not buying a pair of shorts that say sexy on the back of rhinestones because you're eight. And, you know, you're just always, as a parent, you're always, Mom, you're so mean. No, we're not. We're not wearing this. We're not. We're not buying into this.

1:21:11

We're not buying into this. And you can call me an ugly, angry feminazi all day long. I could give a shit. We're not being a part of this. We're going to challenge this. But that's the... When we say the Epstein files, your first thought is, ooh, the island, ooh, little girls. But that's just one facet to what is a truly global organization built on money laundering, blackmail, pedophilia, shady real estate dealings, and then we can talk about cannibalism.

1:21:48

Hey, you know that the ranch won $85 million in the Powerball. I didn't know that. Yeah. Isn't that interesting? The ranch won $85 million. So, as we're recording this, and this is a moving story, not the vampire part, although with my luck, Jeffrey Epstein will go on TV tonight and announce that he is a vampire, but the state of New Mexico is moving on the Zorro Ranch.

1:22:17

The person who bought it after Epstein's death declined to allow investigators, and so the state attorney general from New Mexico said, yeah, you don't really get to decline that. Here we come. Because there are credible reports of bodies buried on that property. Foreign girls was the description in the files. And the Dutch government, the Dutch government is like, mm-hmm, we're curious if these are Dutch nationals.

1:22:48

So now you have the world's governments moving on this, releasing unredacted photos and files. I've seen terrible things. I shared one with you, and that was pretty gruesome, wasn't it? Yes. And it wasn't even gruesome. There's the infamous photograph of, she looks like a middle schooler to me, like maybe 7th grade, pinned down in the grass while Jeffrey Epstein, outside in the sunlight on the island, while Jeffrey Epstein Now you can talk to me all day long about how I shouldn't judge people's kinks and people are entitled to their privacy, but that's torturing a child.

1:23:31

And we don't move on from that. Because if we do, then what are we? We're done. We're done. We might as well launch the nukes if we're going to move on from this. We're savages. We've lost our humanity, and we're in big trouble. Our souls are in trouble. If we're okay just moving on from some of what's in there. But as far as Jeffrey Epstein being an immortal vampire and being the same guy as Andrew Jackson, I mean, just take out the $20 bill and see for yourself.

1:24:01

Once you see it, you can't not see it. Once you see it, you can't not see it. You go, hmm. So here's something, here's a final thought to leave you with to think about. Because this all just sounds like just nuts, right? Just sounds crazy. But we're in this really interesting moment where we're beginning to understand not how the universe works, but we're beginning to understand how much we don't understand about the universe. We don't have the simple, comfortable answers that we once did. We're beginning to understand that human consciousness isn't what we thought it was, right?

1:24:38

And as we are able to look further and further, thanks to the Kepler telescope, we're beginning to see that what we thought about the universe, how we thought it behaved, wasn't correct. And that things are way weirder than we think, right? Well, you have people that will tell you that this world is a prison planet, and you incarnate here to do your time and figure out yourself so that you can move upward through the energy dimensions.

1:25:16

When you think about what's coming down with these files and these people that pass as human and walk amongst us, and the absolute savagery with which they behaved, suddenly, it's kind of a comfort to think of this as a prison planet, isn't it? Because that at least explains it. In that context, yes, I would say that that does explain it.

1:25:42

I mean, you know, I've been working out in Utah at my mom's, and I said to my mom the other night, because I talk to myself while I'm working, and I fill her in with all but the most gruesome Epstein file stuff that I find, because I don't want her to have nightmares. But I said to my mom, it's really something that reality has taken us to the point where we're all like, jeepers, I hope this is a prison planet, because that at least makes sense.

1:26:12

So there you go. Yeah, I'm okay with it. You know, I'm alright with it. I'd rather this were a prison planet and I'm doing my time with demons than to be like, oh, is this just how people are? This is what people do if they get a little bit of money and a little bit of power? This is what money and power does to you? It opens up these desires and deviance and appetites and violence?

1:26:41

Put me on the prison planet. How about you? Sherry, I'm too damn optimistic, and I believe in the better part of our natures that that will win out. Despite the bad things that happen and all of these people? Because the one thing that's true about all of the people that are involved with this situation, with the exception of Jeffrey Epstein, perhaps, we'll all just die one day.

1:27:21

And you can't take your power and your money with you. He's going to die. So in that way, we really are all equal in that way. It just seems like I've been impressed with people that have had money and power and all those kinds of things when they come in. We've had so many people that we've met through the years, Oscar winners, Grammy winners, that come into the studio, and you know, you are impressed a little bit with them.

1:27:45

But the fact of the matter is that all of that stuff does go away. And all that stuff is a facade. It's all going to end so fast, unless you're the vampire. That's the knuckle, because he just watches us all crumble into dust. It's all going to end so fast. And if you're lucky, you'll die without the taste of human flesh in your mouth. Some of the folks in these files cannot say that.

1:28:08

So that's it for Jeffrey Epstein, vampire. Remember, garlic doesn't scare them off, so don't even bother with that. And join us for the next episode of True Weird Stuff, where we meet a couple of sisters who were born just with a silver spoon, and they just live a regular life. They became madams of the world's fanciest brothel, and it is a story. The Scarlet Sisters on the next True Weird Stuff.

1:28:35

Y'all be careful out there. Do not open those files. Do not. Trust me, you don't want to see it. You don't want to read it. You won't be better for it. We'll see you on the next True Weird Stuff. And if you listen to us on Apple Podcasts, hit the plus button in the top right corner, and now it helps an independent podcast like ours to get discovered.

1:28:55

And we really appreciate it if you subscribe, rate, and review True Weird Stuff. Hit our website trueweirdstuff.com for show notes and photos and videos when we have it, and bonus content. Everything True Weird is waiting for you at trueweirdstuff.com. And follow True Weird Stuff on Instagram. True Weird Stuff is a Now! Media production. Our executive producer is Anthony Garcia. The show is written and hosted by me, Sheri Lynch, along with my deeply weird director, Max Sweeten.

1:29:27

Our equally odd producer is Kary Bowser. Additional production by the mysterious Stephen Call. Our digital witch and social media cult leader is Heather Furr. Original graphics by Kevin Nash. Original artworks by Olivia Axland. True weird original music composed and performed by Jack Griffin and Zane Nash. Copyright 2026 Now! Media. All rights reserved. All wrongs remembered.

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